Water Menus Gain Traction as Restaurants Seek Non-Alcoholic Revenue Streams (theguardian.com) 155
Premium bottled water is emerging as restaurants' answer to declining alcohol consumption as establishments offer curated water menus featuring bottles priced up to $25.70. La Popote in Cheshire has introduced a seven-water selection ranging from $6.75 Peak District spring water to $25.70 Portuguese Vidago, served in wine glasses at room temperature.
Water sommelier Doran Binder, who created the menu and founded Crag spring water, reports 7 million monthly social media views for water content. The movement extends beyond Britain -- over a dozen US restaurants maintain water lists, while new producers like Hampshire's Chorq plan champagne-style bottles with corks. Michael Mascha's FineWaters has certified more than 100 water sommeliers globally as demand grows for waters distinguished by mineral content ranging from 14 to 3,300 milligrams per liter of dissolved solids.
Water sommelier Doran Binder, who created the menu and founded Crag spring water, reports 7 million monthly social media views for water content. The movement extends beyond Britain -- over a dozen US restaurants maintain water lists, while new producers like Hampshire's Chorq plan champagne-style bottles with corks. Michael Mascha's FineWaters has certified more than 100 water sommeliers globally as demand grows for waters distinguished by mineral content ranging from 14 to 3,300 milligrams per liter of dissolved solids.
$25.70? (Score:5, Funny)
It better have plenty of electrolytes in it.
Re:$25.70? (Score:5, Funny)
do you crave it ?
Re:$25.70? (Score:4, Funny)
It's what plants crave. If it is good for plants, it must be good for me.
I wouldn't be drinking toilet water.
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Next time you buy a bottle of water, check the back... they list where the source is.
Theory: the ones that are 'imported' are maybe local water with certain percentages of stuff added to make it like the source from whatever country. Shipping water from Peru to the US would cost more than the return would be, I would think.
Re:$25.70? (Score:4, Informative)
It better have plenty of electrolytes in it.
I found a paper that used statistical analysis of waters of Portugal https://ancillary-proxy.atarimworker.io?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedirect.com%2F... [sciencedirect.com] (paywalled) According to the paper, Salus-Vidago is indeed very high in electrolytes. It is a sparkling water, so high HCO3- in any case, and consequently high counterions as well (e.g. Na+).
Snippets: ...
* Fig. 3 displays proles of HCO3- of all the 39 waters sampled. About 12.8% have concentrations higher than 1000 mg/L HCO3- (Campilho, Salus-Vidago,
* and 23.1% higher than 100 mg/L Na+ (Campilho, Salus-Vidago, Pedras Salgadas...
* Fig. 5 displays Mg2+, K+, F- and NO3- concentrations values. The graph shows that 7.7% of waters have concentrations higher than 10 mg/L Mg2+ (Melgaço, Salus-Vidago and Pedras Salgadas), 12.8% of waters have concentrations higher than 10 mg/L K+ (Campilho, Salus-Vidago, Pedras Salgadas, Bem-Saúde and Frize)
At 25 dollars, importing it is a very profitable business. A pack of 4 small bottles totalling 1 litre costs 1.75 euros locally in retail. https://ancillary-proxy.atarimworker.io?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.continente.pt%2Fprod... [continente.pt]
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Salus in the name is a bit of a clue...
Re: $25.70? (Score:3)
Vidago, Pedras Salgadas, Vitalis and MelgaÃo are all from the same company (Unicer / Super Bock Group - yes, the beer one), different springs around the country (wife's deployef there doing IT work). They're all quite good. Some undergo treatment before bottling to remove excess iron content (MelgaÃo and Pedras at least). Pedras even has some delicious flavoured editions (lemon, tangerine, red fruits, passion fruit and pineapple). But the prices are *nowhere* near the article. A pack of four 0.25L
Great (Score:3)
Next thing you know the price of booze is gonna go up because there's little demand for it, while the price of water has gone up as well. Looks like more money for all the greedy bastards.
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Next thing you know the price of booze is gonna go up because there's little demand for it, while the price of water has gone up as well. Looks like more money for all the greedy bastards.
Gas. Canned goods. Meat. Toilet paper. Water. New cars. New houses. We watched damn near every product category get bent over and fucked with COVID.
You know the ONE category that hardly went up in price on the shelf, while we also closed nary a store? Booze.
Other than the “experience” brands marketed with bullshit over substance, your average bottle of vodka, tequila, rum, or whiskey barely moved in price. It’s still surprisingly low.
No. Not an alcoholic or own a liquor store.
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I agree with your assessment. On a superb sale at Binnys, I have gotten handles of Baccardi for $12.95, which is insanely low. On their regular sales, which come up all the time, I get it for $14.95 (yes, I would be considered an alcoholic), which is still very low compared to other places. On a visit to Iceland, I gave up my drinking for the most part just because the price of booze was so high. A fifth, which is 750ml (for comparison to a handle, which is 1750ml) of Captain Morgan cost me about $75.
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Looks like more money for all the greedy bastards.
Then don't give them your money.
I'm confused on how people like Donald Trump and Elon Musk are hated for their wealth but this doesn't land on men like Tom Cruise or Leo DiCaprio.
Cheeto has some issues, and I fear Elon is going to be a 21st century version of Howard Hughes.
But money? I don't care a whole lot about their money. And too many people are stuck in class warfare mode.
Hell, I catch hate for the money I have, and I don't rise to Cruise/DiCaprio level. But your examples? Hollyweird types tend to be more what is called liberal these days. So if they have money, it's okay, as long as they check the other boxes.
Although some are angry that DiCaprio dates younger women
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Hey, no mod points right now, but this should be modded up.
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Collusion? Copying? I can think of many reasons to hate people/companies on how they treat other people. Airlines are a good example. Nobody is happy with how they're being treated by the airlines, but we all put up with it. Selling water to people for $25 for a bottle is just wrong. Nobody should be able to get away with that, regardless of whether someone else is willing to pay for it.
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Except Donald Trump built no hotels. The Trump hotels
I must be weird (Score:3)
To me, any water with minerals kind of tastes a bit off. My favorite bottled water is Aquafina (basically the highly purified tap water Pepsi starts with for their sodas), and it's almost as mineral-free as distilled water. [pepsico.com]
Not microplastic free though (Score:4, Insightful)
Plastic bottles start to shed microplastics into their contents almost the minute they're filled up. Even more if they get crunched or bashed.
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That's why the more expensive brands of water come in glass bottles...
Re:Not microplastic free though (Score:5, Informative)
That's why the more expensive brands of water come in glass bottles...
As a chemist I can tell you that glass bottles leach out ions into water constantly. It's not microplastics, but it's plenty of ions. Most glass on the market - even high quality lab glass - is made with sodiated glass, so the best water you can put in it will end up carrying a substantial about of sodium ions over a short amount of time. Other trace elements will get pulled out by the water as well.
Re:Not microplastic free though (Score:4, Insightful)
Right, but aren't most of those ions considered nutrients? Not the same animal as microplastics.
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"A substantial amount of sodium ions" is rather different to a chemist and someone drinking a glass of water.
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The painted metal caps on glass bottles apparently end up dropping something like 10x more microplastics into the bottle's contents than what plastic bottles do.
Presumably it happens during bottling in the factory. The machinery must be spraying the dust around.
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Incorrect. There's a plastic gasket inside the bottlecap.
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Indeed. Or it would not be tight. But the plastics from bottles are just a minor factor anyways. Apparently most microplastic intake is via food, air and stuff that gets into water in other ways.
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Apparently not. The microplastics comes from the caps and other sources. And, seriously, if bottle walls were shedding microplastics, they would not stay clear.
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Drinking distilled water and de-mineralized water is actually very bad for your health, because your body needs those minerals and when you drink distilled water it actually strips minerals from your body instead of adding them.
Aquafina water IS mineralized, they actually ADD MINERALS TO IT after they filter the tap water, so I am not sure what you're talking about.
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This is a weird urban legend. Yes, you need the minerals. If you're a normal person you get lots of them from your diet. Actually, if you're a normal person you probably get quite a lot more than you should for many of them. Water isn't a significant source.
Most navies use distillation or, more recently, reverse osmosis to make their water.
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RO is the way to go. A decent unit isn't even expensive and fits under your sink (or on your counter top). It makes much more sense than paying more per unit of volume than you'd pay for petrol for "fancy water."
That said, conspicuous consumption has been with us throughout recorded history. I doubt we'll see an end of those that boast about their good fortune any time soon. A shame that so much glass and plastic needs to be wasted in the process.
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You need RO to make your tap water drinkable? Are you in some 3rd world country?
Young people drink less alcohol (Score:3)
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t's mostly about greedy restaurant owners selling overpriced stuff to people
This is mostly false. The margin on food is ridiculously thin. Owners have no choice but to find other ways to make money to stay in business. If you "just raise the price of the food" people will stop coming. It's stupid, but that's reality.
I refer you to P T Barnum (Score:3)
And his famous quote.
Why all the hassle? (Score:2)
Maybe I should start selling Veblen vouchers as a proof of conspicuous consumption propensity.
I remember a Johnny Carson sketch (Score:4, Funny)
The Tonight Show video crew was surreptitiously visiting the secret spring where Perrier water came from. When they reached the source and slowly panned out, it turned out to just be a French guy filling empty bottles from a toilet.
Why not just abandon the scam? (Score:2)
Just raise the prices and abandon the sommellier scam. Then they can let the chef be a bit adventurous and experiment with liquid flavours and mouthfeel too outside of soup.
It's such monumental cowardice to see molecular cooking abandon most conventions and then do wine pairings.
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Just raise the prices and abandon the sommellier scam.
the sommellier scam is the whole (selling) point. these people aren't paying for water (or wine, for that matter), they're paying for the show, the location, the décor, the company, the ass-kissing, the illusion that they're living a wonderful and exclusive experience (which may even be true inside their pea brains) and the priceless opportunity for half a dozen selfies.
Wankers (Score:2)
We have the best filtered, uv treated rain water at home. Puts trendy water to shame.
Homeopathic Water ... anyone? (Score:2)
I ship you the bottle ...you just add water to it.
It's reassuringly expensive to enhance your bragging rights.
Not just alcohol (Score:2)
In a lot of countries they are messing with traditional drinks, particularly using artificial sweeteners instead of sugar.
I've been to multiple restaurants lately where my choices are:
1) soft drinks polluted with artificial sweetener
2) alcohol
3) water
If i need to drive, or just don't want to consume alcohol then water becomes the only option.
Many people are intolerant of artificial sweeteners, suffering effects including migraines or diarrhea. Many more simply can't stand the taste. We used to have a choice
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Can you give an example where it is a country taking away your choice, rather than businesses within that country?
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No one put a gun to your head and forced you to choose diet pop. There were others with natural sweeteners.
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Ah, but see... the very presence of those diet sodas in that establishment was offensive and ruined his dinner!
A complete non-starter (Score:2)
Water can be a high-end drink, obviously. I remember a meal at Georges Cinq in Paris that included a glass of super-cold water in a blue bottle that was served towards the end and was incredibly refreshing. But the poshest bottle the article discussed cost 19 quid. 19!! A not especially distinguished bottle of Savennieres will cost you 40 quid in the shops, and at least 100 in a restaurant. It’ll be considered good value too, much better than white burgundy for example. Restaurants are not going to be
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Your fixation on sexual assault is such a textbook example of projection. It’s blindingly clear that the only sex you’ll ever be able to have in your life will be non-consensual
Scam (Score:2)
even my local 7-Eleven has a better selection (Score:3)
And not even near as expensive as that restaurant.
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I'm not sure why you think that is insightful. Virtually every convenience store is cheaper and offers a wider selection of anything than any restaurant drinks menu.
I just wouldn't recommend 7-Eleven for a romantic date night.
Holy F...$25.70 for bottled water.... (Score:2)
Not a good direction (Score:2)
Unless it's a restaurant on Tattooine hosting moisture farmers, this isn't a good direction to move toward. If I'm paying to eat, water should be pure, plentiful and free... not rationed and served in wine glasses. :-/
What next? Put diners in a airtight booth and offer them bottled 'rainforest air' or an 'invigorating sea breeze'? Or 'room air' at no extra charge?
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Please don't give them ideas.
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Most of the restaurants I go to don't even serve alcohol. Of course, I live in Utah, which is at the very bottom of the alcohol consumption per capita chart. Here restaurants all have normal fountain drinks, water, and then a wide array of specialty drinks, many of which are just normal sodas with some stuff added in.
Being a restaurant owner is hard. The margins on most food is slim. The margins on drinks (alcoholic or not), on the other hand, are ridiculous. There's a reason why sit down restaurants
Fools and their money (Score:2)
I must have missed the date (Score:2)
I must have missed the date- is it April 1st again?
Fun Fact: "Evian" is literally just filtered municipal tap water. Look it up.
What's old becomes new... (Score:2)
A century ago this was a big thing. In my county there is a natural spring that had "high purity" plus a "very healthy" mix of minerals. They bottled it and sold it all over the country (and this was just one spring - there were MANY springs around the country selling their water during that era). In fact it was so popular they built a convalescent hotel at the site, and had the spring water plumbed into the rooms!.
Looks like this fad is coming around again...
http://www.tazewell-orange.com... [tazewell-orange.com]
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Oh and an addendum. That spring has been maintained for the last 100 years, and the owners for the last number of decades have kept the site open to the public in general. All that is left is the spring house (the hotel is long gone), but you can still go fill containers or just drink right out of the flowing water.
If anyone wants a bottle I will ship you one for $40, in the spirit of this Slashdot post.
My water menu at home (Score:2)
Hot, warm, cold.
Hot is available in boiled or microwaved.
A young water (Score:2)
"It's a young water, but I think you'll be amused by its presumption...." - Unicorn Girl, Michael Kurland
tap water (Score:2)
tastes like ass everywhere. That's why we use a water filter at home. No need to buy it in plastic jugs or bottles, no up-charge for trendiness, and water that tastes clean enough that you can take a healthy swig with no aftertaste.
Why everybody doesn't do this is a mystery to me, but then that seems to be a problem with most of my opinions.
No reason to install a filtration system (Score:2)
I guarantee you that places that sell stupid expensive water aren't going to install a filtration system on the city water line so that you won't want to drink tap water.
Pairs well with (Score:2)
You're quite right of course, but... (Score:5, Insightful)
Monetizing silly people never gets old.
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oh, its from 1973? Mkay... its been in the bottle since then, it doesnt ferment more.
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I can tell you don't drink if you think the only difference is a label.
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I can tell you don't drink if you think the only difference is a label.
The label might make a difference but price makes little difference. There are plenty of cheap wines and liquors that taste great and expensive ones that taste like crap, widely speaking among everyone.
Re:You're quite right of course, but... (Score:4, Informative)
You're coming off as not much of a drinker as well. I know I thought I didn't like tequila until I had one that wasn't a cheap, shitty brand and I can talk from experience that price does indeed matter for whiskey as well. I can't talk for wine and most other spirits but I've always understood it was the same
What you're observing but interpreting in an odd fashion is that price isn't an absolute determinant of quality but there is a strong correlation between the two. As I said before I don't know wine much but I know enough that a $20 bottle is probably going to taste better then a $5. Not always though.
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As for water...I know you can pretty much sell anything to anyone, but for the life of me, I can't imagine paying through the nose for what comes out of the tap, perfectly drinkable for free, you know?
Oh, for water this is ridiculous. If I'm some place where the tap water isnt good I might pay a bit for some filtered bottled water but I wouldnt pay the same let alone more than I would for a pint of beer for said water. That's only if the tap water is bad though, otherwise I'm perfectly fine with it.
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Yup., some times you get what you pay for...
Growing up, the one alcohol I could NOT stand was Scotch.
It was the one thing I would not raid in my parents' liquor cabinet as a teen.
MUCH later in life I had a girlfriend turn me onto good single malt scotch....it's like a whole new world opened up to my eyes and taste buds!!
That old blended stuff...ugh, still can't stomach it...but a good Balvenie....heaven.
That's more down to style than price I think. Not familiar with Balvenie, did a quick Google and see it's an unpeated single malt, so I'd probably like it too; I mostly drink pot still whiskies, like Redbreast. I know people who love their Laphroaig, but to me it tastes like a mix of bog water and listerine. For someone who doesn't know whiskey, they'd probably be better off with something cheap like Jameson than either Redbreast or Laphroaig; they're probably going to pour coke into it anyway.
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"they'd probably be better off with something cheap like Jameson"
I know an Irishman who'd try to end your life for dissing Jameson whisky
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Yup., some times you get what you pay for...
Growing up, the one alcohol I could NOT stand was Scotch.
It was the one thing I would not raid in my parents' liquor cabinet as a teen.
MUCH later in life I had a girlfriend turn me onto good single malt scotch....it's like a whole new world opened up to my eyes and taste buds!!
I had a similar experience. When I was younger and was given what they called "Scotch", I just mixed it with Coke. Much later I discovered Laphroaig and other Islay single malts, such as Bowmore Mariner. I occasionally enjoy Highland whiskies - I was given a bottle of 20 y/o Glenfiddich that was a real treat - but mostly I stick with Islay. I'm a heretic though - I put a few very small chips of ice in the glass. For me it works better than just adding a few drops of water to bring out the flavour. But my fi
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The cost has little to do with your personal idea of what you find great or not and everything to do with production. You don't like the taste of aged liquor great, more power to you. I'm genuinely happy for you. The point is that the difference is not in the label but in the flavour, and some flavours are labour intensive, or storage intensive, and are reflected in the price.
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Not really. I have been invited to pretty good wine tasting parties (friend with more disposable income than he can really use fully), and I can attest that a carefully selected $800 bottle can make a real difference. We also have had the occasional (rare) bottle in a similar price range there that was a dud, i.e. pretty good but unremarkable. Obviously, just spending the money is not enough, you also need to be an expert to spend the money on the right thing and even then you can only be sure once you tast
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oh, its from 1973? Mkay... its been in the bottle since then, it doesnt ferment more.
Haha. Wow, okay. There are at least four reasons why that bottle might fetch a high price. First, you are mistaken that there aren't reactions going on inside the bottle. There is a slow oxidation, and flavor compounds are polymerizing and falling out of solution. Importantly, astringency and other off flavors are reduced.
Next, a wine meant for aging should be more flavorful than one meant for drinking right away. You can't drink such a wine right away because it will taste harsh. But if you aged a table wi
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I forgot to mention flavor compounds are also evaporating (hopefully the off-flavors), and yeast is at first absorbing compounds, then later hydrolyzing and releasing the compounds stored in the cell. Though the latter applies more to beer than wine, since wine is bottled with less yeast.
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Water from the stillsuits of Lady Jessica and Chani trade for their weight in spice
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oh, its from 1973? Mkay... its been in the bottle since then, it doesnt ferment more.
Tell us you know nothing about wine, without actually saying the words. While it's usually the case that wine doesn't continue to ferment after bottling, I can tell you from personal experience that its taste continues to change A LOT.
I've had the experience of opening one of two identical bottles of wine on purchase and having it taste just okay. A mere three years later, I opened the second bottle of wine, and it tasted so good that it was tough to tell it was the same stuff. The fact that the taste of wi
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I can get a somewhat drinkable red wine here that comes in a fancy bottle or in a carton. The bottle costs 3x as much for the same content and will taste just the same.
Amateurs ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Monetizing silly people never gets old.
True, but these people are amateurs, $25.70 for a Portuguese Vidago? Gimme a break. The most brazen monetizing of vain and arrogant people that I have ever seen was a nightclub in Monte Carlo that a friend of mine dragged me into. The place was frequented by the children of US and EU billionaires as well as oligarch spawn from Russia, Asia and the Middle East with a few mostly Arab princelings and princesses mixed in. The cheapest item on the menu was a small Coca Cola can priced at EUR 80, and this was alm
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Re:Dehydrated water (Score:4, Informative)
It would be much less carbon intensive to ship little bags of salts to mix with local tap water.
No, not tap water. Distilled water. Tap water would still have all the dissolved minerals and gasses to possibly make the experience different at each location. Better to start with a clean base and customize it from there.
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In the case of water which is to be drunk directly, it's the same, except there's an additional requirement to get the dissolved oxygen and CO2 correct. Dissolved CO2 contributes to the water's acidity and both that and oxygen can impact the taste of drinking water. But between the mineral mixture and dissolved ga
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This is what I thought of when I read the article. If they're charging $25 for water I expect to see the "sommelier" at my table with a distilled water, a pipette, precision scale and a selection of fine crystals.
Now that I think about it, this is probably an excellent idea that people would fall over themselves to pay money for.
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You mean like sodastream does for CO2? Yeah if you have good tap water, buying bottles water is a waste of resources.
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It would be much less carbon intensive to ship little bags of salts to mix with local tap water.
Have you tasted local tap water? For me tap water in most any city tastes like a swimming pool smells.
I drink my tap water but rarely without it being boiled in a coffeemaker, a teakettle, rice maker, or some other cooking. The heat takes out most of the chlorine apparently, then the mixing with food or something covers up the remaining bad taste. If I'm not wanting a hot drink then a spoonful of lemonade mix in a glass of tap water will cover the bad taste, it's not exactly healthy but I learned how lit
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It would be much less carbon intensive to ship little bags of salts to mix with local tap water.
Have you tasted local tap water? For me tap water in most any city tastes like a swimming pool smells.
I drink my tap water but rarely without it being boiled in a coffeemaker, a teakettle, rice maker, or some other cooking.
Water in some places is awful, I'm fortunate, we had ours tested, and it's pretty good. I forget the town in Ohio where I stopped for lunch many years ago. I asked the waitress for a class of water, and she replied "Oh, you must not be from around here!" That water wasn't just chlorine, it was supposedly safe, but tasted like poison.
I'm sure the water is safe but I grew up on drinking from a well, water with minimal treatment, no chlorine, and tested to be safe to drink. Oh yes. Our water at the first place I ever lived in was well water, and it was really good.
There are a lot of mountain springs in PA that have some of the most incredible water I've evert tasted. Usually the spring output has a Masonry shell, and a pipe outlet to mak
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If the tap water is boiled first to get the chlorine out then what does that do to the carbon footprint
Carbon filters are wonderfully cheap per gallon.
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You can't taste the 2-3ppm of chlorine that they add to most drinking water. Maybe they add chloramine where you live, which lasts longer, but can smell "off" and also requires higher concentrations to be effective. There might be other impurities, like sulfur compounds, that while not dangerous, also affect the taste and smell.
Chlorine only really has a taste and smell as a byproduct of it breaking down organic matter. So if chlorinated water smells or tastes funny, it's probably because it's done its j
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It would be much less carbon intensive to ship little bags of salts to mix with local tap water. Where are the greenies? Why are they not protesting shipping water around the planet when 75% of it is covered in the stuff miles deep?
I simply protest by not buying it.
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the "greenies" are promoting locally sourced water, condensed from the room you're in
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You think you are joking, but that does actually exist. Add regular water and get mineral water. Of course, this is not a large market and I have only seen (and bought) the powdered stuff once.
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They'll never be that rare.
Re:There's a sucker (Score:5, Funny)
Just a friendly reminder that Evian spelled backwards, well, you get the picture.
Re:There's a sucker (Score:5, Funny)
Actually I get a word.
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I can only hope the next one won't be as deadly as the last.
if you're right, and sadly i suspect you are, your best option will be to die quickly in the first blast.
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You know why I don't drink alcohol? In part, because of the high cost. Why the fuck would I pay $5-$10 for a small glass of liquid?
$5-$10?! What a bargain! I'd probably order a mixed drink with my meal if it was still only $10.
Most of the restaurants I've been to in the past year have bumped the cost of cocktails to $15-$20 for standard stuff. I might accept it for drinks that have several different ingredients, but even a rum-and-coke goes for $15 around me - and I'm not in NYC or LA. One brunch spot I went to had a memosa flight that was champagne and four different fruit juices, each in MAYBE 6oz. glasses, and they wanted $40 for it
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I generally don't even get soda anymore. I'm just not paying fucking $3 for soda when I know that no matter how much of it I drink with free refills, it only costs them 5 or 10 cents. I mean, that's just ridiculous. Even 7-11 charges under $2, for a HUGE ASS cup of soda.
So, yeah. Go ahead and charge $3 for those sodas. Now instead of getting $1.50-$2 from each person in my family, you'll get jack shit and still spend time bringing and refilling water. Congratulations! I bet I'm not the only one that feels