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Tokyo Is Turning To a 4-Day Workweek To Shed 'World's Oldest Population' Title (yahoo.com) 77

Posted by BeauHD from the what-to-expect dept.
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Fortune: Starting in April, the Tokyo Metropolitan government, one of the country's largest employers, is set to allow its employees to work only four days a week. It is also adding a new "childcare partial leave" policy, which will allow some employees to work two fewer hours per day. The goal is to help employees who are parents balance childcare and work, said Tokyo Gov. Yuriko Koike. "We will continue to review work styles flexibly to ensure that women do not have to sacrifice their careers due to life events such as childbirth or child-rearing," Koike said in a speech during the Tokyo Metropolitan Assembly's regular session, the Japan Times reported.

Moving to a four-day workweek could help address some of the core issues associated with Japan's heavy work culture, which can especially weigh on working women. The gap between men and women when it comes to housework is one of the largest among OECD countries, with women in Japan engaging in five times more unpaid work, such as childcare and elder care, than men, according to the International Monetary Fund. More than half of women who had fewer children than they would have preferred said they had fewer children because of the increased housework that another child would bring, according to the IMF. In some cases, moving to a four-day workweek has been shown to improve housework equity. Men reported spending 22% more time on childcare and 23% more time on housework during a four-day workweek trial conducted across six countries by 4 Day Week Global, which advocates for the issue.

It would take a major societal change for the four-day workweek to catch on more broadly, but years of experiments have shown that working one day less a week improves employee productivity and well-being, said Peter Miscovich, the global future of work leader at real estate services company JLL. "The upside from all of that has been less stress, less burnout, better rest, better sleep, less cost to the employee, higher levels of focus and concentration during the working hours, and in some cases, greater commitment to the organization as a result," Miscovich told Fortune.
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Tokyo Is Turning To a 4-Day Workweek To Shed 'World's Oldest Population' Title More

Tokyo Is Turning To a 4-Day Workweek To Shed 'World's Oldest Population' Title

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  • Giving people more time to (Score:4, Funny)

    by Tablizer ( 95088 ) on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:01AM (#65198031) Journal

    ...flirt and hump.

    Genius! And end taxes on booze also. I know how Japan feels, I want at least one grand-kid, but my children don't want kids. I give them booze gift certificates.

    • ...flirt and hump.

      Genius! And end taxes on booze also. I know how Japan feels, I want at least one grand-kid, but my children don't want kids. I give them booze gift certificates.

      As Garrison Keillor said "Alcohol is what god made so ugly people can have sex.

    • ...flirt and hump.

      Genius! And end taxes on booze also. I know how Japan feels, I want at least one grand-kid, but my children don't want kids. I give them booze gift certificates.

      One less day at the office isn't going to make more babies. Japan is an uber-expensive super-metropolis where no one can afford a home (twentysomehings in the biggest cities literally live in pods that look like some honeycomb, for prices that outstrip US apartments) and women have decided that they want careers, not husbands and children. Change won't come until there's a collapse, and that could be a century away. But a social collapse is inevitable.

  • They've tried this on multiple occasions (Score:5, Interesting)

    by rsilvergun ( 571051 ) on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:22AM (#65198055)
    It doesn't work because nobody actually uses the time. There's strong social conditioning that you shouldn't do that.

    What Japan's trying to do is figure out how they can get women to stay in the workforce for the economic boost while also getting them to crank out babies. It doesn't work. Unless you just force women to have children then in a modern country it's not going to happen. Children aren't useful workers for the parents anymore or even an effective retirement plan. They're just ludicrously expensive pets.

    Even banning birth control wouldn't really work. Japan's birth rates started to tank before they had legalized it.

    • Re:They've tried this on multiple occasions (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Brain-Fu ( 1274756 ) on Thursday February 27, 2025 @12:43AM (#65198069) Homepage Journal

      I think that might be a tiny bit of an oversimplification.

      There are women who both work and raise kids. It is quite common now in developed countries that both parents work and raise kids. It's not easy, of course, and birth rates are still lower than they have ever been. But the working-mom is a norm.

      I don't think a full return to a day when women didn't work at all, and just stayed home raising the kids while the men did all the work, is a necessity, even if we want to see birth rates go up. In theory it could work but in practice the world won't accept it. Far too many people would consider that a cultural step backwards. Instead, if we want to see birth rates rise, we need to take a cultural step forwards.

      In my opinion, that means:
      1. more availability of services like day care, with government subsidies for it.
      2. a safer and less onerous arrangement than traditional marriage (problems to be fixed include: divorce proceedings that leave one person destitute and living as an indentured servant for the rest of their life, failing to default at 50/50 custody of the children, presumption of fatherhood whenever the woman gets pregnant even if DNA testing proves otherwise).
      3. more stable incomes. The current "disposable employee" working world is outright hostile to family.

      I have never even visited Japan, so I don't actually know what kind of cultural forces are at play there. But I have read that it is similar to what is going on right here in the USA, so, that's where my opinions are coming from.

      • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

        by ArmoredDragon ( 3450605 )

        3. more stable incomes. The current "disposable employee" working world is outright hostile to family.

        Prior to the current "working world" as you put it, nobody could just show up to an office or a factory and reliably collect a paycheck for years or even decades at a time like you can now. If you lived in a city, you were either homeless (IIRC something like 20% to 30% homelessness was common in ancient and even medieval cities) living under a bridge, and if you were lucky, you might find an odd job on any given day. If you had a house, it was smaller than a modern prison cell and you did your business int

        • That's the fallacy you've got there. I'm sure there's a more formal name but I can't be bothered learning it.

          Just because somebody else has worse doesn't mean you have it better.

          Also you are ignoring that the reason things are better is because people fought and died for that. The ruling class didn't just give up power and money it had to be taken from them at the point of a rifle

          • That's the fallacy you've got there. I'm sure there's a more formal name but I can't be bothered learning it.

            Even if you don't know the name, you should be able to point to where the error is. But there isn't, so you can't. To attempt to make up for your deficiency, you use weasel words.

            Just because somebody else has worse doesn't mean you have it better.

            I didn't say anything about whether somebody has anything worse.

            Also you are ignoring that the reason things are better is because people fought and died for that.

            No it's not, the reason is technology. Technology you yourself fight against even to this day. The reason most women don't spin wool and knit clothing all day every day is because of inventions that the actual luddites literally fought tooth and nail to destroy. Fortun

        • I know someone who grew up shitting in an outhouse and despite being wealthier than most americans now he tells his friends and family not to immigrate here because it's a disappointing hellworld.

          My wife had a friend go from japan to canada and she said it"s a shithole and moved back. She's now happily living in germany..

      • Japan from what I could gather is even more toxic, they do not expect you to work all the time, but you habe to be in the office at least as long as your boss is, now your boss has to do the same for his boss etc... in the end everybody stays for long hours and does not dare to take vacations because some upper level maniac thinks his office is his home!
        Productivitity over 8 hours zero but staying there is semi mandatory and then going out with your colleques as well...

      • Re: (Score:2, Troll)

        by gtall ( 79522 )

        You haven't been listening to the American Christian Right Wingnuts. They exactly do want women to stop working and generate babies, preferably nice white babies. And it appear the slide in people claiming to be Christian in America has stopped. If it starts going back up again, a Nazi state won't be far behind. They only believe in God's law; translation: we'll tell you what God says so shut up and do what WE say.

      • 2. a safer and less onerous arrangement than traditional marriage (problems to be fixed include:
        You can always make a contract.
        divorce proceedings that leave one person destitute and living as an indentured servant for the rest of their life, that is no where on the planet the case.
        failing to default at 50/50 custody of the children,
        That is not only the default, but in some countries the "other one" is forced to take that responsibility.
        presumption of fatherhood whenever the woman gets pregnant even if D

        • In France, paternity tests are illegal short of obtaining an explicit court order in a legal proceeding (e.g. contested inheritance) . It prevents society from being controlled by biology. And would likely disrupt too many families. "Fatherhood is determined by society, not biology."

      • What Japan's trying to do is figure out how they can get women to stay in the workforce for the economic boost while also getting them to crank out babies. It doesn't work.

        I think that might be a tiny bit of an oversimplification.

        There are women who both work and raise kids. It is quite common now in developed countries that both parents work and raise kids. It's not easy, of course, and birth rates are still lower than they have ever been. But the working-mom is a norm.

        Hm. How did you both reject and affirm what the OP said and still feel like a rational person? The decline in birth rates coincide with women being forced into the workplace and yet you reject that and affirm it. You should rationalize your thoughts before participating.

      • In Japan you are expected to drop out of the workforce when you have kids. More importantly women who can't do that just don't have kids.

        To be honest they're right. I mean what's the point of working non-stop and dropping the kid in daycare? If kids are nothing more than something you want for emotional reasons then there's no reason to have them if you can't spend time with them because you're always working.

        Why have kids if you are just going to have to pay somebody to raise them for you?

    • need to lower the full time hours they will help

    • If the gender wage gap and effect on wages of childbirth are anything to go by Japan isn't trying particularly hard at encouraging working mothers. They have South Korea (even more radically dedicated to demographic speedrunning) to keep them out of the bottom of the table for developed economies; but not by much. I'd assume that, at least in terms of what is or isn't legal if you are silly enough to be honest in writing about what you are up to, acceptability of just not hiring women to avoid the hassle of
    • If child unfriendly regulations make people have fewer babies, then it stands to reason that child friendly regulations will result in more babies. It seems to be working in Hungary. In the rest of Europe, this common sense observation does not seem to be common.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by AmiMoJo ( 196126 )

      I've seen a few parents ask for reduced hours so they can do childcare. It definitely seems to be an issue for them. One told me that it was better to do it herself because it was cheaper than paying for after school clubs, and she got to spend more time with her son.

      Japan's issues are also around people not having time for dating and marriage, so this should help with that. They will use the time because it's prescribed by their employer to take those days off. They will follow the rules, not turn up to wo

  • Nothing wrong with some lovin'.

    I find it amazing that knowledge and being plugged in is what got societies to quit making babies.

    --
    Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit. Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad. - Brian O'Driscoll

  • 3/4 time salaried for employee retention (Score:3, Interesting)

    by davidwr ( 791652 ) on Thursday February 27, 2025 @01:54AM (#65198123) Homepage Journal

    In the mid-1990s, at least one US-based Fortune 50 company had a program where salaried people could go on 3/4 time at 3/4 pay for several years to spend time with their family.

    It was done in the name of employee retention.

  • They die of overexertion even though they are less productive than other people with less work hours. That's because they're samurais and they show their support to their samurai lord by staying with him, all night long if needed. So they have no time for family. Reducing workdays to 4/5 is a joke because there never have been 5 workdays.

    • In ancient times, about 2% of the Japanese population were Samurai.
      The Samurai class was abolished around 1880.

      • During the Edo period (1603–1868), when the samurai class was at its peak as a distinct social group, samurai made up roughly 5–10% of Japan's total population. Estimates vary, but around 7% is a commonly cited figure. In Edo (Tokyo), samurais were about 40-50% of the local population.

  • This assumes that a majority of the jobholders are of childbearing or childrearing age.

    Bonus points if they are female.

    As it stands, unless the demographics of Tokyo government jobholders skews strongly towards child-bearing or and/or child-rearing age, then there is little chance for this to succeed.

  • It's often what's not mentioned (nor considered) where the bias and agenda lies. Within a stable marriage, housework equity alone is not an ideal. Rather, it's TOTAL work and family care that must be considered or balanced. Housework is naturally more compatible with family care. Perhaps, as I suspect is the case, women who want more children want NO paid work (not 4 days, but 0 days). Naturally, the husband will work more for pay. And single parenting is difficult, plus work is nearly impossible. Single pa

  • with women in Japan engaging in five times more unpaid work, such as childcare and elder care, than men, according to the International Monetary Fund.

    Much like how every single job in a business is not directly revenue generating, it's kind of meaningless to say that someone who stays home and provides childcare is "unpaid".

    In fact, money saved is better than money earned and spent - it's untaxed.

    • I'm not sure why we are even supposed to feel bad about unpaid child care, for someone who voluntarily chose to take that job on.

      Free child care would be worth making available for other reasons. But all these people chose to have kids, did so knowing they were without.

    • From the perspective of the families, it's advantageous for the woman not to work, but from the short-term perspective of the government, it's better for the woman to work, because it generates taxes. Which is why, despite pretending to care about birthrate, most governments priority is getting women in the workplace, and not by making it possible or easier for women to not work. Because if women don't work, governments don't make any money.

      It's much better from a government revenue perspective for a woman

  • I thought it was getting to be part of the culture in japan, at least in the bigger businesses, for workers to be pressured or expected to work more than their scheduled hours, sleep at work, etc? Are there laws in place to help prevent unpaid work and OT? And how well are they actually enforced, given the culture there? This 4-day-workday may end up being more of a "suggestion"?

  • Pay me to have babies. I can produce natural born consumers by the dozen. I will need some assistance, just lie there please and think of the dividends.

  • Might move the needle a tiny bit, but not much (Score:3)

    by Smonster ( 2884001 ) on Thursday February 27, 2025 @10:22AM (#65198651)
    The idea that idea that if men helped out more has merit and this claims they helped out a little over 20% more. However, it leaves out that it’s 20+% more of a very low number. My Japanese father in law does zero house work beyond folding up his own futon in the morning and setting it out at night. Zero. My brother in law was the same and his wife left him after two years and before they ever had kids. He moved back in with his parents and my mother in law does all the house work for both of them. I find the whole situation very uncomfortable when I visit. They treat my mother in law like a maid. In our home in the USA we try to split the child care and chores evenly AND expect our two kids to share in the chores responsibilities. Though we do pay our kids allowance once they complete all their chores. To get working Japanese women to have more kids it will likely take a much more than the dads taking the trash out once a week. It will take them actually pitching throughout the entire week as well as being fathers and helping raise their own kids.

  • Half measure that will do nothing. (Score:3)

    by gurps_npc ( 621217 ) on Thursday February 27, 2025 @10:26AM (#65198659) Homepage

    These kinds of programs do little if anything.

    Children are one of the most expensive decisions someone can make.
    In the US Children cost over $300,000 per child over their lifespan and need to be watched 24/7 at first, slowly tapering off to just a constant nagging worry.

    If you want to meaningfully impact the decision to have a child, you need to pay at least $10k a year for the first 20 years, and offer both parents at least 6 months of parental leave and free childcare from 8 AM till 6:30 PM after the leave ends.

    Yes this is a lot. That is why most countries do not do it. And why birth rates are falling.

    If you want people to actually raise a child, you need to recognize that, while rewarding, it is a lot of hard work and the society needs to be build around that work.

    • some things that can can be done in the US to drive the cost of having children down:
      1. free healthcare for children and expectant mothers. the bill you get for a hospital birth is eye watering these days.
      2. free daycare. in this day an age, most people have to work to support themselves. so make it easier for parents of young children to work.
      3. offer huge tax discounts for employers that have a 22 week parental leave program
      4. free education. not just through high school, but offer college and trade schoo

      • Other limitations to birth rate are difficult to solve. People go to college during their most reproductive years.

        We don't need to have 12 kids just to have 4 or 5 survive into adulthood anymore. For maintenance birth rates, no kids before 30 is still fine.

  • That would help too.
    • NEVER!!! If God didn't want us to eat the children he wouldn't have made them out of delicious meat.

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