Flash is closer to dead today, and I ...
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Flash is closer to dead today, and I ...
This is the theory that Jack built. This is the flaw that lay in the theory that Jack built. This is the palpable verbal haze that hid the flaw that lay in...
Flash is dead, long live Flash! (Score:2)
The first nail in the coffin was when Apple decided to ditch Flash, then the rest followed...and flash was essentially history. HTML 5 buried it.
How to migrate away? (Score:5, Insightful)
If Flash has been buried, then how does one go about contacting authors of classic SWF vector animations and games (Weebl's Stuff, Homestar Runner, and most of the stuff on Newgrounds, Kongregate, Dagobah, and Albino Blacksheep) and convincing them to remake their works in HTML5?
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The only 2 flash games I like are these tower defense games:
GemCraft: Chapter 0
* http://armorgames.com/play/352... [armorgames.com]
Desktop Tower Defense (pre 1.5)
* http://www.kongregate.com/game... [kongregate.com]
I'll miss 'em. :-/
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switch to HTML versions. Such as http://www.pirateslovedaisies.... [pirateslovedaisies.com]
Pirates Love Daisies was created (several years ago) to show that HTML/JS could replace Flash. Although they had to used several Flash tools to create the sprites etc (there used to be a writeup on how they did it - if not - look for back episodes on DotNetRocks).
Have fun!!!
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And why did flash have to die? Security? Sure, lets take the Dentist's approach to web security..... Tooth hurt? Well we better pull it out!
Never you mind that flash's real-world threat was centered around bad advertisements and bad domains. Lets not point our finger at bloggers selling their souls for penn
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In the 90s I saw some beautiful animated videos that were made using the real features of flash; each sprite was a scripted flash object.
Nobody cares. They just make something like that in a GUI, and it doesn't need a container because it is static. And HTML5 solves it for when it is dynamic. JS is pretty solid these days.
It is a dead art that was left behind, but it really was a useful package of related things that had good uses. And the security problems have nothing to do with the basic system. The prob
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don't worry - Silverlight is dead too (although was it ever really alive?)
I wonder what's going to happen with the new Chrome feature that kills off all NS old-style API add-ons. Silverlight, Java, and others are gone. Will the world not notice because Windows 10 has a (pretty) good browser built in?
But you're right - a whole bunch of old content will disappear. If you will - Books that can no longer be read. This is the internet / web. Oh the cool fun things that used to exist when I was a kid (befo
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Oh for mod points, useful and informative. Easily the best comment I have seen in months.
Re:How to migrate away? (Score:5, Insightful)
Homestar Runner's content is up at YouTube now as well as on their site. I still get the "Where you Goin' To" song stuck in my head once in a while. It could be worse, I suppose. I've had far worse songs stuck in there. It's even worse when it's a song that you don't even like.
For whatever reason certain, my browser of choice (Opera) doesn't do well with HTML5 at times - at least not in the beta version. I don't generally use the stable build. They recently moved over and forked Chromium so I'm pretty forgiving but this means that I keep Firefox and/or Chromium handy so that I can access stuff on the rare occasions where it doesn't load in Opera. I'm willing to wait until it improves, they've been a fantastic company for a very long time.
I'm pretty browser agnostic, I guess, and I don't really rely on much in the way of Flash though I end up using at Hulu from time to time. It's usually all blocked anyhow so I don't think I am missing much.
Also, there's no CowboyNeal option and I find that disappointing. I enjoy voting for the option with his name in it. There should have at least been an option, "When CowboyNeal stops using Flash, I'll stop using Flash." So I went with the I'm skeptical option because we've been ringing the bell for years and it's still here.
I don't prefer to use it but, alas, it's there. It's just one more thing for me to keep up to date, block, and configure. I kind of like to not install the Pepper version and to keep the regular version. Then I don't see it in Opera (they use pepperflashplugin-nonfree) but I can open it in Firefox if I actually want to see the content.
Ah well... It will, eventually, go away but that's likely to take a long time because there's just so much content in Flash and people seem to like them. I'd pop some popcorn and see if the show gets interesting. Adobe's provided us with all sorts of quality entertainment. It should be interesting to see them fight to keep Flash alive but I think users will keep it alive for them for the time being.
At how many kbps? (Score:5, Insightful)
Homestar Runner's content is up at YouTube now
Uploading SWF to YouTube involves rendering the vectors to pixels and then compressing those pixels with AVC. This produces a significantly larger file, and it removes interactivity. Comments to recent Slashdot stories about Netflix and Steam suggest that in some areas, such as the middle of Seattle [slashdot.org] and elsewhere [slashdot.org], it's hard to get even 256 kbps Internet access at home, let alone the 1 Mbps you need to stream YouTube at standard definition. With the original vectors, on the other hand, a sufficiently powerful device can render them locally at full 1080p.
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All true, but how relevant? The problem with Flash wasn't homestar runner, nor youtube, but all the myraid bugs and exploits and need to oversupport stuff. If you want a solution to play a thing, the solution could be "send a recording", or it could be "transmit a script to people living there who will obey it implicitly". Sure, the script is shorter, but you risk an "OUT, VILE JELLY" sort of thing happening to you...
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http://www.smtube.org/ [smtube.org]
I can't get streamed content to work for crap, because of my bandwidth. But, with SMTube browser, I can right click and select "open with MPV & youtube-dl". When the viewer pops up, I hit pause, wait til the buffer is well filled, then hit play. It works far better than any flash, or HTML5.
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How much bigger is VP9+Opus than vectors+MP3?
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VP9 is comparable with H.265. You can't compare it with vectors because that's not how it works. And MP3?? How... quaint. MP3 is for pocket players. Real men use AAC.
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VP9 is comparable with H.265.
Then how much bigger is H.265 than the original vectors.
You can't compare it with vectors because that's not how it works
My point exactly. Rendering vectors to 480p pixels and compressing them with VP9 or H.265 will likely use far more space than the original vectors.
And MP3?? How... quaint. MP3 is for pocket players. Real men use AAC.
Which codec is used in existing animutations?
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I can't grasp how vector is any good for motion pictures at all. Sure, it's good for rendering animations and scaling graphics but for "live action" motion pictures? You're going to want bitmaps or you're going to lose a LOT of detail.
Great for episodes of The Moomins and Dangermouse and early South Park, not so great for oh lemme think, Star Trek: Renegades (great movie-turned-pilot, by the way, recommended viewing for any even transient Trek fan or anyone who remembers who Herbert Jefferson Jr. is. Mary Y
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I agree with you that animation and live action have very different considerations in their compression, and CGI using photoreal shaders is probably far closer to live action. So the solution has two steps. The first is to standardize an open vector animation format to complement the existing widespread live-action formats (WebM and H.26x). The second is to contact the authors of old vector animations so that they can be converted to the standard open vector animation format.
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They're not really an archive though, they won't run on my Virtualbox MS-DOS 6.22 image - they've been ported to run on that DOSBOX image. To me, an archive is original format (if possible/practical) or specificity in explaining just exactly what they've done to it to make it work on their special sparkly. What they've done is print Shakespeare's notes on mylar and claimed it's original by omitting the fact that Shakespeare likely never heard of mylar, instead preferring hemp paper.
I do have a DOS archive,
Still need the original FLA (Score:2)
From the linked page: "In this tutorial, I cover opening an existing Flash (FLA) project". Only the author has the original FLA. That's why I mentioned "contacting authors".
Double Action 53 for NES: now available (Score:2)
When even the authors don't care enough to port their stuff to HTML5 you can be confident that yours is a niche concern.
Are you implying that the public should have honored Franz Kafka's request to burn his manuscripts after his death? Because destroying a work once "the authors don't care enough" about it anymore is similar.
You might as well be arguing that the video game industry should still develop for the Nintendo Entertainment System.
I contributed two games and the menu to this NES collaboration released in 2015 [infiniteneslives.com].
Proprietary platforms are always at risk of being ended by the proprietor
Prior to widespread support for <canvas> and <audio>, for what non-proprietary platform should these authors have created these vector animations instead of Flash Player?
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At that point, it just becomes a decision by the user of whether they're willing to pirate an older version of Creative Suite, or download a free HTML5 development app. Legal-free beats pirate-free any day, so that's one area where HTML5 could still catch up.
Agreed in principle. But when is it likely to catch up? Which "free HTML5 development app" is comparable in features and polish to a preowned copy of Flash CS or even Flash MX? "Use a text editor" has no timeline.
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Only the author of an SWF has the clear legal right to use Sothink SWF Decompiler or Swiffy. That's why I mentioned "contacting authors".
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I maintain three browsers on here: Chrome (my main one), Opera (for Unity, Chrome doesn't handle it too well at all), and Safari (in case the other two go tits up - that said, I've not had need to run Safari since I installed it; if space becomes an issue, it's gone).
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Is Safari even made available for a platform for which it isn't the included browser? As far as I'm aware, Apple only ever made Safari for OS X, Windows (desktop), and iOS; it's the pack-in on OS X and iOS, and the Windows version is discontinued.
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yes, 5.1.7 is the last win32 version AFAIK, 6 isn't available for Windows (OSX/iOS only).
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There's got to be some sort of Flash2HTML5 utils out there somewhere, at least for simple things like non-interactive videos.
1 MB, must be author (Score:2)
There's got to be some sort of Flash2HTML5 utils out there somewhere
Google hosts such a tool [google.com], but only for SWFs below 1 MB, and only the SWF's author is legally allowed to use it. That's why I mentioned "contacting authors of classic SWF vector animations".
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You can also just download the swf and run it locally. I'm pretty sure there will always be a version to run it like that, right?
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They will love it, gives them a chance to flush out their libraries and current flash content creators will love it as a lot of not longer supported competing stuff will disappear. leaving fewer to share a very crowded marketplace.
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Just use http://mozilla.github.io/shumw... [github.io] it implements Flash in HTML5.
Newest Flash tools compile to HTML5 & Javascri (Score:2)
If you can find contact information, the newest Flash authoring tools will now output html5 and JavaScript, from old Flash project files. So converting is "easy", for varying definitions of "easy".
The Flash programming language has long been a dialect of Emacscript, also known as JavaScript, so code conversion is pretty straightforward, especially with the new tools.
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The Same Store (Score:2)
If Flash has been buried, then how does one go about contacting authors of classic SWF vector animations and games (Weebl's Stuff, Homestar Runner, and most of the stuff on Newgrounds, Kongregate, Dagobah, and Albino Blacksheep) and convincing them to remake their works in HTML5?
The same store you go to to get all your games migrated to newer versions of consoles.
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how does one go about contacting authors of classic SWF vector animations and games (Weebl's Stuff, Homestar Runner, and most of the stuff on Newgrounds, Kongregate, Dagobah, and Albino Blacksheep) and convincing them to remake their works in HTML5?
Can't, we lose all that code. IMHO, that's the main argument for open source.
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For a lot of these works, it isn't code as much as the character designs, scripts (in the screenplay sense not the ActionScript sense), etc. Somehow, free cultural works in entertainment never took off to quite the same extent as free software or free cultural works outside entertainment. Nor did free software in video games take off to the same extent as free software outside video games.
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Weebl's animations, for example, are on YouTube.
How much bigger is each YouTube MP4 than the corresponding SWF?
Re:How to migrate away? (Score:5, Funny)
This is the web, you should be happy they're at least shipping a video, not an entire virtual machine running inside of an x86 emulator written in Javascript.
F Yeah Seeking (Score:2)
How do you pause or bookmark time indexes or skip forward and backward through an SWF?
Many later animutations were made on an ActionScript framework that allows pausing and seeking.
How do you watch an SWF on a smartphone, tablet or console when none of them support Flash?
On a smartphone or tablet running Android pre-4.4, you can install Firefox and Flash Player. As for consoles, the Wii comes with Internet Channel that includes Flash Player, and the Home Theater PC supports Flash Player.
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And how many Flash productions present that ability to the user?
I have no resources to perform an exact count.
And what about Xbox 360, PS3, Xbox One and PS4? They are the most popular consoles currently.
PC is more popular than those put together [gamerant.com]. Besides, PS3's browser supports at least some version of Flash Player since 2.5 [playstation.com]. I'll grant that Xbox 360, Xbox One, and PlayStation 4 would need the author to convert the Flash to HTML5.
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From a filesize perspective, Flash was great at keeping filesizes minimal by bundling assets into a single SWF
Which HTML5 has begun to address with data URIs.
and it's per-character font utilization allowed for the use of multiple fonts without needing to include entire font faces.
You can subset a WOFF [subsetter.com] or have someone write a Canvas-based font renderer.
Lastly, Flash allowed for protected code.
Protected from what? Copyright in all Berne Convention member states is automatic from the date you press Ctrl+S until 70 years after you're dead.
What HTML5 already has (Score:2)
Oh god.. it's another "HTML5 will have that soon" post. Give me a break.
Let me make it clearer: HTML5 already has data URIs. HTML5 already has WOFF subsetting and the ability to link in a third-party text engine written in JavaScript. You already have the protection afforded to you by international copyright.
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swf2h5 -o crap.html5 oldcrap.swf
Where'd you find that? Google swf2h5 didn't give anything relevant.
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how does one go about contacting authors of classic SWF vector animations and games
Easy.
Just inform them
Part of the problem is contacting them in the first place.
There was no Canvas then (Score:2)
perhaps eventually using them as an example of what happens to people who choose proprietary solutions.
What non-proprietary solutions were available at the time? There was no such thing as HTML5 Canvas when FutureSplash became Flash.
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Yes, it's dead, but somebody forgot to drive the holly stake into its heart and you know what that means.
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Even if you opt into HTML5? (Score:2)
the only major video site that's switched to HTML5 - and THEN only for most, not all, videos, is YouTube
Which videos does YouTube serve as Flash even for users who have opted into all HTML5 all the time [youtube.com]? I'd like example URLs so I can try them on my PC and in the Firefox browser on my Android tablet.
a DRM system that isn't the current "Attractive to content providers, terrible for everyone else" crapfest
Contradiction in terms.
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I'll let you know, I've "opted in" on all my browsers but frequently, for some reason, get videos delivered via Flash instead.
Install FlashBlock (optionally, you can enable it only for YouTube). You will get all YouTube videos rendered as HTML 5.
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Re: Flash is dead, long live Flash! (Score:2)
F%^k these stupid polls (Score:5, Insightful)
These polls are so inane, and take up space. Has slashdot run out of stories?? Or aren't the thousands of interesting ones not covered by mainstream media not good enough for your advertising dollars?
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They moved the location of the polls, and you are butthurt... Find something better to be outraged about, k?
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Is there anything you do not get outraged about if it doesn't go exactly as you want? Do you scream vulgarities at people who give you free stuff often?
"You jackass bastard fucktwits! The $5 bill you gave me for nothing is not pre-folded exactly how I prefer it! This is IMPORTANT!!!"
It will be great when school is back in session. That should be coming right up.
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Hello there n00b, Slashdot has had polls since the beginning.
And nobody is forcing you to read, vote in, or comment on them.
Skip to the next item. Or KFGY. Strictly up to you, of course.
People are moderators. SoylentNews is people. (Score:3)
why not increase the number of moderators and meta-moderators?
I've never had mod points even once in more than a decade of Slashdot use. But on SoylentNews, I started getting mod points the moment my karma went positive.
no purpose left (Score:5, Insightful)
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<sarcasm>
But, but - Flash is the savior of the universe.
</sarcasm>
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This may be the popular opinion, but it's simply not true. Anybody who has developed in flash/Actionscript and also HTML5 knows that the difference between the two as a developer is stark.
HTML5/javascript is a series of layered hacks on hacks on the foundation of a script thrown together by Netscape in a few weeks. There are loads of browser-specific behaviors to be aware of, and the core functionality that there is a plethora of javascript libraries (jquery, prototype, and too many others to name) that try
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Unfortunately, given the fact that no known video format (not even Ogg Theora) is completely guaranteed free of submarine patent traps, none could be added to the HTML5 standard so a bridge code in [insert scripting language of choice here - usually Javascript] is required to embed codec information according to user agent support capabilities, and often cusom controls rather than native ones (if any). And if you're not going to use a GPL RDBMS such as MySQL, what are you going to use to store live data? Fl
.htpasswd (Score:2)
Show me a way to made HTML5 without PHP, MYSQL or javascript to deliver info to several users using a password for each user.
Please refer to Apache's manual regarding .htaccess and .htpasswd.
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Hampster Dance was animated GIFs with background music. It got away with this because it didn't require sync between the GIFs and the music. To get sync, you need either Flash or HTML5 Canvas, which is why YTMND.com uses Flash. I was under the impression that authoring tools for HTML5 Canvas were a lot younger, which means 1. more bugs and 2. not available for purchase but instead exclusively for rental through Creative Cloud.
Game of Thrones (Score:3)
Re:Game of Thrones (Score:4, Insightful)
What does everyone else do?
Piracy.
Where software goes to die (Score:2)
Flash isn't dead, it's just that as it's slowly phased out the effort in producing security updates will be reduced.
YES, it has upsides. (Score:5, Informative)
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I wonder if this the reason why my machine has so much trouble when I open a Youtube page in Firefox. Basically, youtube has become unusable recenty (in the last couple of months or so). I'm using Ubuntu 12.04 on an old Thinkpad X200. Everything else works fine. It's just youtube. (Though I haven't investigated anything and I don't really need youtube)
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Do you use ipv6?
I had a host of problems with various google-related sites, and tracked it down to a problem with my firewall script.
Or at least I think I did. Fucking Heisenbug - works great, then a couple days later it starts acting up again. Good thing I've got a lot of hair - I've been pulling it out. I know it's ipv6 doing it though, because turning it off fixes all the problems.
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That is also true under Linux. The Flash YouTube player uses about a quarter the CPU resources of the HTML5 one.
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I'm an OSX user and I force Flash on YouTube in Firefox. I do indeed use the YouTube Flash video Player.
Why?
Because OSX has an animated transition from a windowed to a full screen application, and a notification that the application is now full screen. This takes about 2 seconds. When watching short YouTube videos, it's the most annoying thing in the world as you then miss the first 2-3 seconds of a video when using the HTML5 player. In general I like OSX, but this is one of my few annoyances. The animation
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Pro-tip for proper viewing of YouTube content on old hardware:
Copy the YouTube URL, start VLC Media Player, press Ctrl+N (for File | Open Network...), paste URL, Enter.
Voila, 1080p on hardware so old, it barely handles 480p in the browser. Added bonus: no ads and better controls.
Multiple choice? (Score:2)
What about ZOMBO COM? (Score:2)
If zombo.com ceases to operate it will be the end of the Internet as we know it. Has anyone seriously considered the ramifications before pulling the plug on Flash?
Won't celebrate until videos by default are dead (Score:2)
I won't celebrate Flash's passing until we can turn off video content by default under HTML5 as well.
e.g., just one noxious offender [webex.com] - just want to disable all the "video" tags.
Google...halarious (Score:2)
Google update their logo today, and up on their main site is a movie that shows the old logo being erased, and the new one being drawn. Halariously, the movie didn't start until I clicked on it -- was it a flash movie?
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It auto-ran for me.
Looking at the element, it appears to be an animated GIF:
<img alt="Google's new logo" border="0" height="231" src="/logos/doodles/2015/googles-new-logo-5078286822539264.2-hp.gif" style="padding-top:0px" title="Google's new logo" width="400" onload="window.lol&&lol()">
Please tell VMware (Score:5, Informative)
Damn vCenter web client requires me to install flash for it to work at all. On a production system that I rely on to manage my data center I have to install Flash. Some fun times for a system that by security policy is isolated from the internet. Someone please give VMware a clue.
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Mod parent up. VMware should be ashamed of themselves.
Re:Please tell VMware (Score:4, Interesting)
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extract pepper flash from chrome to use in other browsers like Firefox!
While I know that Pepper Flash can be used in Chromium and Opera this way, how would you run it in Firefox?
Linux NPAPI Flash is in security patch only mode, and I think it will become completely unsupported in February 2017.
Flash is dead... (Score:3)
when we pry it out of CowboyNeal's cold dead hands.
Flash is "closer to dead today"? (Score:3)
What does that even mean?
Hell, *I'm* closer to dead today than I was yesterday.
Flash going away? (Score:2)
I would be a little more likely to believe it if there existed a viable replacement.
Flash isn't just for decoding videos, you know.
STOP THE REPETITION (Score:2)
Why does this stupid poll, which I stupidly voted on, continue to turn up in the Slashdot CHRONOLOGICAL chain of "newsworthy' items?
This is the third or fourth day of the EXACT SAME ITEM appearing in the main-page.
Please, someone, tell me where I can get tech/society news aggregation other than at Slashdot!
Slashdot has been decaying for a long time. I, as an early-subscriber and A++++ Karma Commenter, give up. Yes, that's right: That button that says, "See /. with no ads thanks to your contributions!" d
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I'm in the same boat. SoylentNews is trying to be the new Slashdot, but it doesn't bring enough to the table to be more than an off-brand slashdot.
Anyone else have a go-to news source?
Blame Apple. (Score:2)
Missing option: How do I explain it to the kids!? (Score:3)
BBC and other news sites? (Score:2)
I'm on the BBC's website now and it is telling me I need to install Flash before I can watch any of the news videos.
When are they going to change to an HTML5 player?
Once HTML 5.0 was finalized in October 2014.... (Score:2)
...It was only a matter of time before Adobe Flash heads to the ash heap of computer history.
Besides being a MAJOR user of system resources, Flash was also a major vector for malware attacks. That's why Google, Microsoft, Mozilla and Opera are all wishing that Flash goes away as soon as possible.
life support FOREVER (Score:2)
There will be no burial. There will be no funeral. It will not die, but instead will remain on life support due to games.
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Netflix and Amazon both use it.
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Sunset games for kids.
Intel and Micron Unveil 3D XPoint Memory (Score:2)
What's going to replace my flash drives?
Presumably Intel Xpoint, if this article from a month ago [slashdot.org] is to be believed..
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You can always switch to Warcraft or StarCraft.
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Anyway, at the time I blocked all images, flash, audio, javascript and only enabled them when I required them - and I don't see why the fuck everyone else still doesn't do the same thing today.
Two reasons. First, people have come to realize that with the exception of Flash, they require them more often than not. Second, though mobile devices block Flash by their nature, fine-grained blocking of images, audio, and scripts on mobile devices is kind of obscure.