For the conventional gift-giving winter holidays:
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Not just an exercise in consumerism (Score:5, Insightful)
Christmas, followed shortly by Valentine's Day, is nothing short of an embarrassment to the modern person.
Why? They are forced to realize how little they know or care (or in reverse, are known or cared about) about other people. This "spirit of Christmas" and "romantic Valentine's Day" stuff should happen all the time and not just on two designated days of the year.
Re:Not just an exercise in consumerism (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe the modern person who needs to make some lifestyle changes (or was unlucky enough to be dealt a shitty hand in life)...
I bought a fake palm tree decorated in Christmas lights for my mother as a joke and set it up in her living room while she was at work. It wasn't some cheapie either.. very well made and nice looking. I knew she would like it.. and she did. I can see the enjoyment she gets out of it.. and it'll probably be a family fixture for the next several years.
To me that kind of stuff is what the season is about. If people would get over how evil consumerism is and learn to relax a bit and enjoy themselves, I think we'd be a lot happier.
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Re:Not just an exercise in consumerism (Score:5, Insightful)
I think people get very caught up in the "expectation" of giving.
Giving a good gift to someone is always a joy. Getting them something because you're supposed to get them something is much less of one.
It's different in different families, too. My family never gave things too expensively, but there was a lot of hand-made stuff or trying to find the perfect gift. I go to my wife's family, and you can hardly see the tree for all of the boxes... half of which will end up getting returned, because grandma has some odd ideas of what young women like to wear.
And at first it felt kind of shallow, and consumerist... and then I watched her grandmother's face, and realized that this was the only way she knew or could think of to try to connect and show that she cared about her granddaughter. Which is sad... but very honest...
Which is the point of it all. To show someone that you care about them, and see that make them happy. However it ends up happening...
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I think people get very caught up in the "expectation" of giving.
It's the 99% of people who get caught up in the expectation of getting that ruin holidays.
Re:Not just an exercise in consumerism (Score:4, Insightful)
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I feel obliged to give my parents, siblings and grandma gifts at Christmas. Friends get gifts at any point in the year -- usually shortly after I've seen something I think they'd like, often while I'm on holiday. Closer friends get something at their birthday. If I see stuff I think my family might like I buy it and save it until Christmas, otherwise I'll be stuck thinking of something come December.
None of my family manage this though. Earlier my grandma was asking me what I "wanted" -- I'm 25, if ther
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If it happened every day it wouldn't be special.
We make all our gifts, the making is part of the celebration. Not many friends and family make gifts for us, but all realise we do not want expensive things and get us stuff that they think we'll enjoy (we particularly like things that are second hand, and appreciate that they will have taken some finding).
Sounding a bit like a hippie, but really it is the thought that counts, and thinking extra hard about people once or twice a year makes everyone feel better
Spread it out (Score:5, Insightful)
If it happened every day it wouldn't be special.
Then give at random times throughout the year instead of holding it back until December.
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Re:Not just an exercise in consumerism (Score:5, Insightful)
Showing people that we care about each other should happen all the time, that's true.
Don't know about the gift-giving thing. There are ways to show that you care that don't involve how much money you throw at someone (and sometimes even if you do care about them a great deal, some are difficult to buy things for). To me, some nice words and a bit of time together are worth hundreds of the "things" we exchange.
Pub vouchers... (Score:3)
It's not a matter of not knowing people - the main problem is that we're so rich that we don't actually need anything. And we're so busy in life that we don't actually have time for most presents either.
Then the only thing that is left are the real "gifts", i.e. stuff you don't really need, but which are nice to get. And that's just difficult to find. It's a thin line between giving something nice, and giving something useless.
Personally, I don't need any presents. Give me 50 euro, and I'll spend it in the
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I have instituted a policy of charity for Christmas.
I will donate money in someone's name to the charity of their choice, and I only ask for the same.
It removes a lot of the stress of Christmas shopping.
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You'll be glad to hear I donated 20$ to The Human Fund [wikipedia.org] in your name.
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http://www.the-human-fund.org/ [the-human-fund.org]
GDP (Score:2)
Since when Christmas and Valentine Day are winter holidays?
How much is the GDP of the half of the world with winter starting in June compared to the half of the world with winter starting in December? For example, among anglophones, the market of the United States, Canada, Great Britain, and Ireland outweighs the market of South Africa, Australia, and New Zealand.
Done (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Done (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, I celebrate a secular mid-winter holiday, because that is the time of year when it's most appropriate to be with friends and family and treat yourself. The winter is tough, so we stay together, warm and happy. I don't buy stuff because I'm loyal to the day; I'm loyal to the people I love, and we enjoy the tradition.
But because I'm not the kind of atheist who shoves my (lack of) beliefs down throats, I call it Christmas.
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Here, here. I'm an atheist who celebrates Christmas for what it is, a mid-winter solstice party (that happens to be taken over from bunch of god-botherers by another lot). It's a great time to hunker down and enjoy being your nearest and dearest; it's the major social part of the cycle of the seasons.
That said, Christmas in the southern hemisphere is unnatural. After spending Dec 25th in very sunny Australia, found ourselves in autumnal New Zealand. Late May was grey, overcast and cold, and whilst wander
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But because I'm not the kind of atheist who shoves my (lack of) beliefs down throats, I call it Christmas.
It's got nothing to do with shoving unless you go out of your way to bring your message to others even if they don't want it.
Calling it something to yourself that it isn't is conformism. At least admit it, it's nothing evil. We are all conformists. If we weren't then society wouldn't work. We just differ in which 5% of our lives we decide to not conform.
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Interestingly, in Scandinavia, they do the opposite: celebrate Christmas (i.e. mostly Christian), but call it Yule ("Jul")
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Nope, it was a winter celebration 2000 years ago..but religious LOVE to shove there crap into other peoples lives, so now is Christmas.
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For me, Christmas is about families getting together, friends and workmates taking time to let each other know they are appreciated, and strangers making an effort to be more generous to each other. It's about celebrating good times with good food and thoughtful gifts, and sharing that celebrative spirit with those in your community through decorations, carols, or simple wishes of "merry Christmas".
It's the one festival that most people in my community celebrate at the same time, Christian & atheist ali
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All holidays are made up. If you're too cool for culture, then every day is the same as every other. We as a society have picked a couple days a year to be generous and thankful on. You don't have to go along with it, of course, but don't act like you're better than other people for it.
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The Solstice is next Wednesday I believe, so why not just celebrate our celestial position in our orbit around the Sun?
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It's not some magical bullshit from two thousand years ago. Modern Christmas is a holiday that's only 80 years old [thecoca-colacompany.com].
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NO, it's older then that, Coca-Cola was just the first to seize the open domain idea and market it nation wide.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus [wikipedia.org]
Santa clause goes back to about 1820
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You obviously have no kids.
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But the religious Christmas message, applied all year, is much better than the consumerist one. In brief: be thankful for and generous to your fellow man.
Unless they happen to be gay, eat shellfish, tease a bald man, work on the sabbath, worship another god (these you must kill), associate with non Christians, or god forbid you happen to be a witch (they cannot be suffered to live).
No thanks. You can keep the mythology around this invisible friend. The message of the summer solstice (for those of us in the southern hemisphere) is one of sharing and compassion. A very non religious message.
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Re:Done (Score:4, Insightful)
I've become more and more uninterested in people's opinions of what they think I believe. Once you cease to care if they hate you life becomes much better. I can get along with pretty much any religion now as long as they don't resort to physical violence. If they want to hate me I'm fine with that, just leave me alone.
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Let me guess, you are American?
You didn't see the part where I said I was from the southern hemisphere?
US Extremist Creationist Christians are so present there that they actually scare the youth away into the other extreme, Atheism and make them believe all religious people are witch-hunting crusading bigots. So narrow minded of you. It's kind of ironic how you are what you hate: extremist and uneducated. Oh and before you start accusing me of being whatever other prejudices you have, no, I'm not religious.
I was poking a stick at the mention of "The Christian religious message". The thing is - which message? All of the things I mentioned (including witch burning) is a Christian message. Most people think of the feel-good love-thy-neighbour message. I remind them of the other Christian messages let we forget the danger that is religion.
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There was a "new covenant"......
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That's a great strawman you've got there, but if you ever actually talk to a religious person, you might find that they don't actually go around burning witches and killing heathens. Great job railing against all those bastards from centuries ago though!
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In other words, it's the religious leaders (Score:3)
It's not the religious person you need to be concerned about, its the religious people.
In other words, it's the religious leaders. This was in fact part of Jesus's message: the Pharisees were corrupt hypocrites who were not doing the work of his father's kingdom despite what they claimed.
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There a are religious people burning witchs right the fuck now.
I rad about these stories all the time.
If you talk to religious person, you would see that they really wouldn't have a problem with that...if left to their own devices.
Look at history.
In the US every church I went to had a hate on for some group.
Re:Done (Score:4, Informative)
Unless they happen to be gay, eat shellfish
There's a difference between these two. The Mosaic prohibition on man-to-man sex is reiterated in the Greek Scriptures (Romans 1:27 [watchtower.org]), unlike the prohibition on "unclean" meat, which was repealed (Acts 10:9-16 [watchtower.org]).
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Religious people have no sense of humour (at least when the jokes are about their own religion.)
If you're keeping it for one or two days... (Score:2)
...out of the year, then you're gonna die sad and lonely.
Nearly-Equal Votes (Score:5, Interesting)
This is the first time I've seen poll results so even distributed amongst the available options.
To me, that's pretty interesting, as the options range from basically "I'm a cheapskate" to "I enjoy spending my money on loved ones" to "I am Scrooge".
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I think it's a bit unfair to say the answers all reflect attitudes about money. Buying good (will be liked) gifts for a lot of people simultaneously on a regular schedule can be very difficult and stressful, even if one is completely willing to splash out large sums to do it.
There are various ways to deal with this, and deciding "no, I'm gonna focus on more personal holidays like birthdays and stick to other holiday activities at christmas" seems a perfectly reasonable method [caveat: if you don't have ki
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Not everyone who ignores xmas is a Scrooge. That figure is pure propaganda.
I don't need an official holiday to buy people I love something. I don't need an official holiday as an excuse to visit my family. Most importantly: I do these things when I feel like it and not because some date in the calendar is staring at me.
I hate xmas because it's dishonest. It's a forced celebration of love, and we all know that neither celebration nor love can be forced, and if they are, they are faked.
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To me, that's pretty interesting, as the options range from basically "I'm a cheapskate" to "I enjoy spending my money on loved ones" to "I am Scrooge".
I suspect many in the "get more than they give" category have elderly debt-free relatives that give of their money like an early cut of the inheritance each year, while those with kids tend to give more than they get - as least in money value. I try to stay break-even with my peers because it'd be awkward otherwise, so I think this is just as much a demographics issue as a personal characteristic.
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Agreed, I was also surprised to see such equal distribution among votes... and I've been here a while.
More like anti-junk policy (Score:2)
I have an anti-junk policy. I try to make sure they know not to get me anything, and if they want to do something for me to take me out to dinner or something like that.
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I don't know what to say. I know it's rude to get rid of a present someone got you. But I have everything I want. I have a very low junk threshold. That's why I prefer not to receive gifts, and I try to make sure anyone who might want to get me something knows I feel that way.
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you should not consider a present that someone thought you'd like or find useful as junk.
Where did the "should not" come from? Who told you that?
I don't care about things that I don't care about. I don't care what their intentions were. If their gift is garbage, then I won't care enough to keep it around.
Bachelor (Score:4, Insightful)
Sorry, I'm in my 30's and a nerd with a job. For me, I'm living christmas every day of my life, if I want something, I just order it (yes I'm responsible with my money) - I have all the gadgets and toys I could ever want! (250$ on a second HP Microserver last week http://www.google.com.au/search?q=hp+microserver&hl=en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&authuser=0&ei=1GrqTujlKbGViAf10PiPBw&biw=1272&bih=1351&sei=12rqTpvJFrCwiQfWmO2VBw [google.com.au] (I really recommend it for a good little file server and torrent grabber) plus 300$ last night on some speakers for the PC, Battlefield 3 deserves to be played with the right sound levels!
As an Aussie, xmas is just about enjoying a BBQ with family and drinking a few beers, that's it for me.
â(TM)¥
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As an Aussie, xmas is just about enjoying a BBQ with family and drinking a few beers, that's it for me. â(TM)¥
As an Aussie, isn't that how you basically celebrate every holiday?
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As an Aussie, xmas is just about enjoying a BBQ with family and drinking a few beers, that's it for me. â(TM)¥
As an Aussie, isn't that how you basically celebrate every holiday?
Indeed! Also most weekends.
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Re:Bachelor (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep. I was mentioning that to my friends yesterday.
"Remember when at Christmas people could actually afford stuff that you couldn't afford? No wonder Christmas was awesome. If I got 4-5 things I couldn't afford this year it would be like receiving $200k in gifts."
I mean, if I want something and it's $50... I buy it, now, I don't wait 3 months hoping someone will buy it for me. That leaves a problem for my Christmas list every year where they have to get me something that I can't have Amazon prime deliver to me in 2 days. So in that regard "Christmas List" is a contradiction for me. If I can think of it and will put it on a list, then I'll just buy it. So my Christmas List is admittedly obnoxious and I really don't care if someone doesn't get me something as a result but it's essentially "Something I would like, that won't just clutter up my apartment and isn't something I would necessarily think of, because if I had thought of it, and I did want it, I would have bought it."
If I were to make a real Christmas list of stuff I didn't buy because I'm not sure it's worth it but still kind of want there wouldn't be a single item under $300 on it.
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I fully concur. In fact, putting something on a list just increases the risk that I won't get something - something I otherwise could just have bought myself. The well-meaning givers are actually depriving me of things.
This is why I really like gifts handmade by the giver. That hand draw card I got for my birthday was worth far more to me than all the presents.
Unfortunately, not all people are creative and can give you unique gifts that you can't buy yourself. So what can they give you? A letter would
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Society dictates you're not happy until you've had kids. Sorry, I'm not a breeder and I disagree with the "oh, you're not breeding, you're abnormal" philosophy.
Re:Bachelor (Score:5, Insightful)
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I am single aswell. The "oh, you're not breeding, you're abnormal" philosophy isn't something I have noticed. Most people become happy from having a kid. You probably wouldn't. That simply means you should find something else to be happy about. If you want to prevent the confustion of happyness and fun it should be something non-transitional.
I wish you well on your quest, should you be wise enough to accept it.
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Most people become happy from having a kid.
Thats an extraordinary claim, do you have any proof for that? Anecdotally, the only people I know who become happy are grand parents.
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Well, the only way to become a grandparent starts with having kids.
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No it's not. Many events you have with your children cause chemicals in your brain to be released, that create a feeling of Happy.
So, it's not extraordinary at all. Its science.
As fr an anecdote: My children make me extremely happy. Yes. someimte there is frustration, but far more it makes me happy.
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Thank you and on the money.
Oh noes! This guy isn't wasting resources on this finitely resourced planet by making a woman push out a sack of meat which HAS to be done in order to be a success! Ideally 2.5 of them infact. ALL people are capable of having children and should do! No parents are selfish! none of them are lazy!! No parents hate noise and no parents could possibly enjoy freedom, no sirree.
Let's shovel out the chilren until there's no resources left, what could possibly go wrong?
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I couldn't agree more, and I have kids (that I love, in a good family environment).
I always said that I was happy without kids, and I was. In my mid-30's, I decided that I was ready to try something else in life. And it's been great - I love having my kids around. No, I'm not ready to say "I can't imagine my life without kids" because I can - I do remember those days of freedom of responsibility with fondness. But I wouldn't give up my kids for that again - it's just a different perspective in life.
Life, li
Prefer to give over get (Score:2)
Summer Holidays (Score:4, Funny)
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The southern hemisphere rocks sometimes.
Yes, it rocks... but some other times that's not necessary a good thing [wikipedia.org].
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We don't give presents during the winter, there being no holidays of note.
But we do give each other presents on Christmas, after we get back from the beach.
Ah, the massive amount of BBQ-ed lamb chops with cold beer... starting at sunset - about 8 PM.
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You don't celebrate the 4th of July down there in Australia or South America? Damn commies. :-(
Just say Christmas (Score:2)
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Because other holidays around this time of year also involve the exchanging of gifts, and the poll wants to know about all of them? This is one of the rare places where it actually makes sense to use a more generic term.
Hate Christmas (Score:2)
Hmm... (Score:2)
Happy Holidays.
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missing option (Score:4, Insightful)
I give what I can, the missing option. I don't take note of the value of the gifts that I receive, that's not what giving is about.
Gift it Forward (Score:2)
I give more valuable presents to my nieces and nephew than I get from them, but I get more valuable presents from my parents than I give to them. In the former case it's because the kids don't have real jobs yet, and in the latter case it's because Dad's always had a better job than I have.
I don't call them holidays! (Score:2)
Alternative (Score:4, Funny)
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Give to the Grandchildren (Score:2)
My wife and I give only to our grandchildren. They are 15, 4, and 3. We definitely do not expect them to give back to us (other than their love).
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I'm not a penny pincher and don't keep accounts? (Score:2)
I'm not a penny pincher and don't keep accounts?
Would give more (Score:2)
Missing choice... (Score:2)
It is about giving and I don't give a rats ass about getting.
Merry Christmas! (Score:2)
I don't believe in this "politically correct" nonsense. I'm a Christian and don't really care what anyone thinks about it. Celebrate the holidays or this time of year however you want. I will.
In that light, I wish you all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Kids (Score:2)
When you have kids, most of the fun is the opportunity to give them gifts. Of course, as they get older, the gifts (toys) get more expensive, and that's not so fun.
Pft Gifts. (Score:2)
My mom started a tradition when I was five. She gave us all receipts with a card that said, "Spend this much on yourself and tell yourself it came from your mother".
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For me the holidays is a time to start looking for stuff like that. The lists are a usefull fallback if I can't find anything really good and because of that everyone gets something and nobody feels left behind.
Great idea for a facebook app. (Score:2)
What are you waiting for? - that data will b worth a fortune if sold for advertising purposes.
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