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Journal the_mad_poster's Journal: Religious Songs Banned In NJ School 8

Maplewood New Jersey has banned religious Christmas carols in its school Christmas plays.

This sort of move always fascinates me, because it always brings out a rather vocal group of protestors who want to see traditional, religious songs left alone on the basis of that tradition. The problem, of course, is that traditionally our public intstitutions such as courts, schools, and public welfare offices have largely ignored the separation of church and state because, until recently, the very vocal majority of Christian citizens kept it that way by supressing other people's complaints or, simply, banding together and leaving other religious groups in niche areas of the country.

This intrigues me further for good reason. Here's a question: if I don't believe the bible is anything more than a book of stories, and the honesty of my testimony is sworn upon it, does that mean I have free run to lie to a courtroom because I don't believe in the book I swore on? If not, why not? If the idea is that I'm obligated to tell the truth regardless, why swear on the bible? If the idea is that I'm attesting to my honesty before the Christian god, how can I be obligated to keep my word if I'm not a Christian? This is the sort of oddity that is created when you allow public institutions to enforce religious beliefs on the public they serve.

Anyway, back to the schools and the hymns. The problem, of course, is that every student in Maplewood is not necessarily Christian. Even if every student were, it would be irrelevant, because not everybody who could potentially attnd that school is Christian. The school has the potential to service every possible religion, so it can either represent ever possible religion equally (or, for the sake of practicality, represent ever religion represented by the student body equally) or it can turn a blind eye to the religious aspect of the season entirely and stick completely to secular celebrations.

This, of course, always upsets the religious folks who are getting smacked back into place. They complain that its traditional, harmless fun. Naturally, this is their point of view and their point of view only, and that's the problem - they don't care about anybody but themselves.

See, we live in a society. Each person in that school is not living in his or her own little bubble, protected from the world outside while the bubble protects that world outside from them. We have to interact with people as a body who don't believe or desire the same things we do as an individual. When we enter the public arena, we become a part of the body, but we often want to remain individual. It doesn't work like that, however. When you enter the public, you need to respect other people and those other people need to respect you. More importantly, when you become a part of the public that holds a position of responsibility, you need to ensure you are treating everyone under your thumb equally. You cannot lavish favors on the people who think the same as you and ignore everyone else.

This is what happens in a public school. These people have a responsibility to equally represent all of their charges. The easiest way to do that is to simply ignore their personal beliefs and desires when doing otherwise would conflict unfairly with other people's. The Christians that are always crying for more religion in schools wouldn't appreciate a prayer being led to Allah anymore than the Muslims in the school appreciate being led in a prayer to Yahweh/god.

What the Chrisitians that complain never stop to consider, however, is that they are not personally affected as in individual in any way. They are still free to believe and worship as they wish (so long as they're not being disruptive - saying a prayer out loud in the middle of class and disrupting the class is a problem just like any other disruptive behavior), the PUBLIC BODY simply cannot be coerced by the authority in that body to believe or worship things.

Like it or not, religious symbols, songs, books, etc. do not belong in public schools when they are being provided or touted by the authorities in charge of those schools. You are free to bring your bible to read during study hall, you are free to wear a crucifix (unless you're French... but they can be idiots sometimes), you are free to say a non-disruptive prayer at your desk. You are not free to make anybody else partake in these things without their explicit consent.

That's the essence of the subject. If you can't function as part of a society, then society just needs to leave you behind.

This discussion was created by the_mad_poster (640772) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Religious Songs Banned In NJ School

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  • I strongly object to this music being played in public spaces. Not because I'm not a Christian (though I'm not), but because:

    Verily they doth suck.

    I am so mind-bendingly sick of them that I may murder the next fat man with a white beard I see.

    Another few days of this shit and women named Carol won't be so safe, either.

  • A friend of mine is a real huge history buff and one of his favorite areas is the history of world religion, so what I am saying here is paraphrased from something he was explaining to a student he was tutoring in history.

    The original "holiday" that is now called Christmas was a pagan ritual performed every year. I forget what the exact ritual was. When Christianity began taking over Europe, obviously most of the people being conquered had their own traditions (pagan of course) that they refused to give
    • It was a celebration (?) of the winter solstice. Duh.

      But by your logic, things can never exceed their origins. Linux is nothing more than a Finnish kid's futzing around, a Ferrari is just a souped up Model T, and a 767 has nothing on the Wright Bros' flier.

      What truly *is* appalling is that Christmas is held in higher esteem than Easter by most Christians. (Blah, blah about Passover)
    • "I forget what the exact ritual was."

      Yule. Hence the Yule log, "yuletide", etc...
  • Why can't we just have a *little* bit of everything? Everyone has their whiskers in a knot over these stupid trivial details, and I just don't think it is worth the apoplexy.

    Teach a little bit about evolution. Teach a little bit about Santa Claus. Teach a little bit about the nativity. Instead of setting up a strict environment where teachers have to walk on eggshells, trying to keep multiple yelling sects of parents happy, why not try to impart to students the raw truth that we don't know? Set school
    • your proposal implies a perfect system and impartial nonbiased instructors. neither exist. i am just antischool. i am a drop out and self taught. i saw school as a waste when i was forced to be in it.
      • Actually, I would say that the idea is specifically to acknowledge that the system isn't perfect, wouldn't you? But no matter *what* you teach or how you approach the delivery of material, every student will have a different experience, based on their location, the teachers they interact with, and their own personal intellect and ways of learning. I just don't believe that the tidgy details like whether or not they happened to be taught a religious christmas song affects in any way the quality (or lack th
  • If you inform the courtroom staff ahead of time that you are not a Christian, there is in fact a standard non-Bible-using oath one can take, at least according to the judges of the two county courts I've been in.

    I've heard similar things from people as far away as Chicago.

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