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Journal the_mad_poster's Journal: The Death Penalty 34

Journal by the_mad_poster

Soo... aborting a creature that cannot possibly live on its own is murder.... but executing a 40 year old woman is justice.

Fascinating.

I used to be in support of the death penalty, but the more I think about it, the more it seems like it's just an excuse for state and federal officials to legally kill people where it would otherwise be murder.

What amuses me is the thoroughly stupid arguments around it though. I mean... the constitution is the supreme law of the land. The constitution contains an explicit recognition of the "unalienable" right to life. Doesn't that make any one person killing any other person a violation of that person's rights? It's not like you can forfeit a right by committing a crime, so you can't argue that.

Why is it that the more I think about things... the more liberal I become? I mean, years and years ago when I was still a kid in school, I used to think:

1) Anti-gay rights laws were fine because people can choose to be straight. I "justified" this retarded mentality by saying "It's not like black rights because black people didn't choose to be black".

2) I used to support the death penalty.

3) I used to be against abortion.

4) I used to believe that things like the Iraq war were justifiable on the grounds that the other guy was an asshole.

But then when I actually started to think about the ramifications of these positions and the logic (or lack thereof) supporting them, I gradually abandoned them until, here we are.

In other words... I haven't been a conservative since I was a kid... I'm not making this up to be insulting, it's true. The more I read and paid attention to the world, the more liberal my views gradually became. I had strong social conservative views only when I had minimal information. As I gathered more information about history, culture, and current events, I became more and more liberal.

The only question is... why?

This discussion was created by the_mad_poster (640772) for no Foes, but now has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

The Death Penalty More

The Death Penalty

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  • texas is becoming more liberal to -- this is the first black woman to be executed there.
  • I've been through the same journey. I think of it as growing up and starting to see more and more complex issues and shades of gray instead of simplistic comic-book hero solutions to black-and-white problems.
  • ... but only for people who are willing to examine all sides of the issue ... and admit that their preconceived notions, or earlier decisions, may have been made on incomplete or faulty information.

    And yeah, I could have made the same list when I was a kid ... so perhaps the difference is that, in some ways, non-liberals are just refusing to "grow up" by clinging to their "childish/shildhood" beliefs well after they have any reason to (which is why we get so frustrated trying to reason with them - can't be

  • i'm following a similar path. a lot of my views when i was younger simply parroted my parents' views. i feel like i've broken out of their ways of thinking to see things quite a bit more clearly. a big help, for me, is the internet, where i was able to be challenged by a wide variety of views and even cultures. i'm embarrassed at some of my old newsgroup postings from '93. i was so stupid and naive! :)

    i read that most people start out liberal and become more conservative; however, that's not the case f
  • Just wanted to point out that, yes, inalienable rights are forfiet when committing a crime. Freedom being the first. Liberty, out the window. Persuit of happiness... laughable. In fact most rights are forfeit the moment somebody is convicted of a crime.

    You still have a right to avoid cruel and unusual punishment. The debate here, is much more vast.

    That's all. It just bothered me.

    • Someone misspoke: he said constitution. The rights outlined in the Bill of Rights must not be limited by any part of our government. Any attempts to take them away from foreigners or convicts or anyone else are all bogus.

      The rights that are named in the Declaration of Independence are the things that they claim governments are created to protect. But no one ever claimed that the constitution preserves those rights for all people at all times. They did so claim about the Bill of Rights.

      So if he's saying that
  • I have found myself in the last few years drifting from the extreme ends of many issues towards the middle, and in other cases I have become a bit more hard nosed about.

    I think the biggest thing I pay attention to more so then I used to is infringement on the Constitution. I don't really buy into the "living document" argument and think people really need to understand the language of the times it was written to understand the intent of the document. Language and meanings of words change over time and wha
    • I don't really buy into the "living document" argument and think people really need to understand the language of the times it was written to understand the intent of the document. Language and meanings of words change over time and what something meant 200 years ago more is interpreted differently than today.

      I think there's a middle way. I do think original intent and what the language meant at the time is CRITICAL in understanding the document. However, I also think it is clear that the founders used V

      • I fail to see how that can be

        I do as well, but like I said, that is the issue that is being portrayed, or at least is from what I read.

        and I'm not sure how white fits into that group

        Only because of a kind of snarky inside joke between Bodak and I that everyone has their own effective government lobby group except for white male christians. We joke that we are the one group of people that apparently don't have the right to complain about how we are being treated because we were given everything at Pl
        • We joke that we are the one group of people that apparently don't have the right to complain about how we are being treated because we were given everything at Plymouth Rock.

          I know you don't mean it that way, but that's exactly this guy's [adl.org] argument, and I don't think ya'll are particularly sympathetic to him. Yeah, it's a snarky joke, and there's a bit of something to it, but....

          • No. We are equal opportunity offenders and comedians here. Currently, the favorite topic is the wife of a friend of Bodak's parents that apparently not as many people are fond of her as we thought. One of those kinds that has an opinion on everything, even if it makes absolutely no sense, then raises her voice to yell at you if you disagree with her opnion.

            But on the brightside, only three more weeks until hockey season then we can get back to laughing at and with one of our favorite nutjobs. :) Seriously

    • I think abortion is murder and is wrong, but I am a man, and don't believe I really have any right to tell a woman what to do with her body.

      The entire point of governemnt is to tell people what they can and cannot do with their bodies. You cannot steal from people, or push them in front of subways, or cheat them financially. If government could do only one thing, it should be to protect innocent people from those who would do them harm. You describe abortion as murder, which is of course the ultimate

  • I used to be a lot more conservative when I was a kid too. I dug up an old English 101 paper a few years back and I couldn't believe that I had written it. Personally, I believe that if you're a thinking person, you can't hold to certain conservative values that are really contradictory to others. Hell, as a little kid I used to believe that rock music was all demonic and that playing Dungeons and Dragons was a surefire way to wind up nailed to your ceiling (per the fundamentalist urban legend) by demons
    • And yet some of us have no problems with 'religion'. Perhaps it depends on what teachings you ascribe to. I'm Episcopalean, so have a more grounded, reality based understanding of religion than other Christian sects. Someone gave me this link [publicchristian.com] but I haven't had time to read it yet.

      • Well, I have a tendency to generalize. When I say "religion" I mean extremist fundamentalists. But saying that takes away from the power of just saying religion.
      • Eh, that's just because Henry wanted a divorce. So he forced his splinter religion to be pragmatic :-)

        As an ex-Episcopalian and ex-Catholic I have standing to say :-)

  • Moo (Score:2)

    by Chacham ( 981 ) *
    [flame on]

    Oh, you're wrong, as usual.

    aborting a creature that cannot possibly live on its own is murder

    Noone can live on their own. Everyone requires water, food, oxygen, and so forth. The fetus just gets them in a more efficient manner.

    but executing a 40 year old woman is justice.

    The comparison makes no sense.

    the constitution is the supreme law of the land.

    Actually, it isn't. The Constitution provides the framework for the supreme law of the land.

    The constitution contains an explicit recognition of the "un
  • Politicians are scumbags, and the government is incompetent.

    I would prefer the government stay out of our personal lives whenever practical.

    Considering the incompetence displayed on trivial matters, do you really trust the government with peoples' lives?
    And what could be more personal than executing people?

    Not to mention that so far our techonology and medicine is unable to un-execute someone, and it is generally less expensive to keep someone in prison for life rather than execute them. (You gotta be fisca
  • The Death penalty in one specific case should be an option .
    If the person is sentenced to Life,. no hope of parole then I believe that the Defendant should be given the option of voluntary euthanasia .
    Mainly because I think making someone spend the rest of their life in prison is inhumane .
    What Rehabilitation does it serve to lock someone away for the rest of their existence . I would sooner die than lose my freedom .

    Having said that , The death penalty is barbaric in any other case.

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