Torturing myself is a choice. On an ethical scale, forcing an animal to be tortured is worse.

I just eat meat at restaurants. I don't even cook at home. But if I DID cook at home, I'd just go for the cheapest meat. Which is always factory farmed.

I'm perfectly happy eating less healthy, tasty food, if it means that I'm spared the price of torture.

Humans are driven to efficiency. Most meat will come and will always come from factories, where the animals are not killed humanely. Hoping otherwise is wishful thinking.

I don't care about the health or environment benefits. I care about the ethics of not torturing animals. Killing is fine. Torture is not.

Agreed. I don't find life and death "per se", important. I find torture morally abhorrent.

We kill all the time. Mosquitoes, animals etc. It's also why when the pro-life side in the abortion debate harps on about heartbeats, it annoys me no end. Who gives a fuck about just "life"? No one.

But torture is objectively evil. Animals are raised in horrid conditions, get their tails chopped off, beaks burned off, horns cut, are subjected to diseases, cramps, etc. There is ZERO moral justification for that shit.

I have no problem with killing. I have a problem with torture.

Death = neutral (neither good, nor bad)
Torture = evil

Life is not that important. It's why I don't care about the "pro-life" bullshit. We kill all the time, it's no big deal.

But animals in factories are not just killed. They are tortured. And I have a problem with that.

For me, the biggest motivation for artificial meat is that real animals don't have to be tortured. I honestly don't care about the environment or health benefits.

It's better than nothing - which is the case right now with social media.

Educate us.

Warren would take that as a win.

On the flip side, any leaks from one of the 5 boxes will be limited in scope. Moreover, they are unlikely to all leak at the same time. It's one of the reasons why the Japanese response to the Fukushima nuclear disaster was to build multiple smaller reactors instead of one large one.

We can debate about Facebook being broken up. But I would any day store putrid excrement in multiple smaller containers, rather than one large container.

Search for something on Twitter. 99% of it is marketing crap - filled with a dozen hashtags, and probably auto-generated. Real posts by real people are rare - and they're the only ones worth engaging with. Pity there's no way I can filter my stream/results to only get such tweets :(

Cancer therapy drugs avoid the prisoner's dilemma because they are profitable to develop and sell, and so are the rational choice for a company. This is because if a company were to develop antibiotic drugs and only sell them to those who can pay the huge costs for it (like cancer drugs), people would call for their blood and their situation would be untenable. Their image would be mud, and somehow or the other, people will find a way to get the molecules to poorer people for cheap.

Cancer drugs avoid this because vastly fewer people get cancer than bacterial infections, and a company is not seen as a monster for not providing cheap cancer drugs to a very few people. But with the number of people needing anti-biotics numbering in the billions, there's no way a pharma company can justify not selling them cheaply and to poor people around the world.

Bottom line: No country in the world is 100% libertarian including the US. When the greater good vastly outweighs the benefits of a single entity, the property rights of that entity will be infringed upon.

Antibiotic drugs create the prisoner's dilemma because the rational decision for an individual company is not to develop them due to unprofitability. And in this case, everyone following individual self interest leads to a diminishing of the greater good.

Most people reading my response and who know what the prisoner's dilemma is, would immediately know what I mean. As such, I gain zero benefit from taking the considerable effort of explaining how it applies to this scenario specifically for you.

Maybe if you were to pay me for my time, I can educate you on the subject. Otherwise, it's not worth it. If that's unsatisfying to you, well...such is life.

Because of the Prisoner's dilemma. This is basic game theory, and not some astounding revelation.