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Comment Re:bandwidth and a website in the FIRST world (Score 1) 208

P2P doesn't actually solve a problem for developing worlds either. If an end user has a small pipe they are just going to be spinning their wheels trying to participate in the cloud vs. actually downloading the bits.

Where P2P actually starts helping is if (1) you have a large pipe at the end point and (2) there is either a choke point between you and your download or at the download it self. If you don't have this *specific* situation P2P is at best no faster or slower than a normal download. At worst, it's dramatically slower.

Comment Re:Why? (Score 1) 208

Ok you are so far wrong in your assumptions, assertions and comments it's a bit saddening. Let me set the record straight on where your at right now.

The primary purpose of peer to peer systems are to either avoid censorship or provide lots of cheap/free bandwidth.

   

the primary purposes _now_ are to avoid censorship and to provide lots of cheap/free bandwidth.

Ok, your partially right here, but in reality P2P in all it's forms is *not* to avoid censorship at all, they are there to provide a mirroring infrastructure where non can or does exist. And BitTorrent is in fact a rather bad mirroring infrastructure at that. Don't try to apply political motives or any other traits to P2P, it's a technical solution to a technical problem (mind you most of the OSS world, and in most everything doesn't actually have this problem and there are a number of papers, reports and findings that are clearly showing the BitTorrent and their ilk do not even remotely compare to the capacity of an even small mirroring system)

the last major upgrade of debian REDLINED the world's internet backbone infrastructure for a WEEK.

   

with the total linux usage only being - what... 1% of the world's desktop systems, and debian being a small fraction of that, the debian mirror system are ALREADY creaking under the load.

Redlined? Cracking? Debian? I'm sorry to burst your bubble but by the last numbers I have, when Debian releases the internet does not strain under the load. When Fedora releases (currently the largest / most popular Linux distribution at release time) the internet does not load, and it's not uncommon for the Fedora mirroring system to move 100's if not thousands Terabytes in a week. The internet doesn't redline or strain under this load, in reality most people don't even know it's going on. This isn't 1998 anymore, and there are a lot of mirrors out there with 100mbps, 1000mbps and even a few now with 10gbps uplinks to the internet.

Neither of these really apply to source code management.

why not?

Hosting is easily sponsored and the files aren't very big anyway. Few projects will face censorship anywhere other than the most regressive regimes (ie, China or the US).

i don't _want_ "sponsorship". i don't _want_ my pet project hosted by a large corporation. i want it completely independent.

This is quite the worthy goal, and I applaud you for it.

i want my web site content hosted and automatically mirrored across the world, along with its bugs database and its wiki all linked together.

Here's where your argument falls down though. If you use a traditional mirroring system, yes, your relying on the kindness and sponsorship of others to deal with the distribution of your project.

How is this any different than P2P? Your now relying on the sheer *kindness* (which in a P2P landscape is not to the pullers advantage) to continue to participate in the P2P cloud. While they are in they are sponsoring you and you are dependent on them. The only way to be truly independent is to run your own mirror on your own system and buy your own bandwidth.

i want people in the emerging markets and the third world to be able to have exactly the same kind of luxury that we do - and they DO NOT have "continuous access to the web site or access to the lovely sponsored hosting".

P2P still doesn't really solve that problem. The problem your relating is one of end user's bandwidth vs. bandwidth of a mirror or P2P cloud. If an end user has a small pipe participating in P2P is actually rather detrimental to them as a lot of their traffic will be eaten up trying to participate vs. actually downloading. Slow pipes are also bad for the cloud in general.

Mirroring here is still a better way to go. Get a local mirror on site there (and yes there are mirrors everywhere) and let them get the content and then download from your local mirror.

think much bigger and you will start to see why this is so damn important.

What's interesting here is that the original 'GitTorrent' idea is dead, and after the core developers met for the GitTogether'08 it was made clear that the idea, really, is dead on the table. Where GitTorrent is currently headed is more towards a stateful mirroring and distribution system.

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