Fair enough. Incidentally, Microsoft Excel is exactly 40 years old today (30 September 1985). I heard an interview with one of the developers on the radio today.

His name was ledow, not Wi-Fi.

Well maybe as a bundle, but Microsoft Word (1983) and Microsoft Excel (1985) predate LibreOffice by a large margin.

Wake up dude, you’re late for work.

Wake up dude. It’s time for work.

Good point. My example was bad.

London has latest sunset time of 9:21pm at summer solstice, with sunrise of 4:42am. Without BST it would be 8:21pm and sunrise of 3:42am.

For the lighter six months, countless sunlight hours would be mostly lost between 4am and 6am, benefitting few people, and subjecting the majority to an extra hour of darkness in the evening.

Since it sounds like you are more of information-based person rather than a people-person, seriously maybe Google Seasonal Affective Disorder. And try exercise your imagination and empathy to understand why normal people (not cows, homeless people or recluses) that cannot necessarily control and offset their schedule to match celestial objects, due to larger society and commitments. And that reduction in sunlight in normal waking hours has a profound negative effect on mental health and wellbeing of many people, and possibly even your dog. https://ancillary-proxy.atarimworker.io?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhs.uk%2Fmental-heal...

You know your views aren’t normal, right? Like, someone has told you, right? Genuine question.

It’s not a matter of survival, it’s a matter of betterment. Yes, we could SURVIVE with an extra hour of sunlight arbitrarily given to street cleaners at 3am at the behest of some autists on the Internet that do not understand or appreciate the real world ramifications of time zones.

But we can and do THRIVE with an extra hour in the evening when the vast proportion of normal people in society can benefit. I work at a leading VFX company with a mixture of over a thousand highly creative and highly technical people on London site. Everyone, and that’s EVERYONE, prefers summer time with extra hour, nice walk from work around central London, and it frequently comes up when clocks change.

If you asked everyone whether they’d prefer to lose an hour of sunlight for six months in the evening just so that the guy sleeping in the park without a watch gets a sunrise at 3am and some Rain Man guy on Slashdot enjoys a monotonic wall clock devoid of two C0 discontinuities every year, the answer is a resounding no.

This confirms my original point. You seem like an intelligent person but you literally don’t get it. Time isn’t arbitrary. Time is deeply entrenched in the rich tapestry of human activities in every large modern city. The whole “just adjust your schedule to match the sun” works for cows, homeless people, and agrophobic internet recluses, but doesn’t work for people with a job, kids at school, clubs or hobbies, concerts, gigs, restaurants, bars, and so on,

Holy shit dude. The tropics don’t need DST because there is little or no variation in sunlight hours. But in London at 51N and similar cities, in the year 2025 not your Dickensian period drama, the change in daylight hours is a net benefit. An extra hour of sunlight at 9pm (when people can benefit) rather than at 3am (when most people cannot). If you are in a basement playing games all day or coordinating with your Swatch watch or UTC it won’t benefit you. But if you are at a restaurant, pub, park, etc at 9pm then it will. Moscow has its own unique view on things. You’d have to ask them.

That’s great. Thanks for the history lesson. I was really talking about DST in the year 2025, and I thought you were too when you talked about living somewhere without DST changes. At moderate or high latitudes (eg London Edinburgh etc) it provides a welcome extra hour of sunlight in the evening throughout summer, for those living in normal societal schedules (eg not shift workers or night taxi drivers). It’s weird that people misunderstand it and get stirred up by it.

So you weren’t talking about somewhere, you’re talking about somewhen? My original position stands. https://f6ffb3fa-34ce-43c1-939d-77e64deb3c0c.atarimworker.io/comments....

Umm, what?

I’m genuinely confused how everyone can be so confused by this stuff. We literally have the GMT Greenwich meantime meridian line running through the city. I work in a company operating on four continents across a dozen locations, and schedule meetings accordingly.

That is quite separate from wanting an extra hour of sunlight in summer at 9pm at the pub, restaurant, park, etc rather than at 3am while most people (including myself) are usually asleep.

Do you people ever leave your basement gaming caves?

Yes, here in London sounds similar. I think what some critics of summer time mistake is that they think it is somehow making winter darker. Rather, it is making summer evenings better (enjoyed by many) at the expenses of summer very early mornings (eg 4am) darker, which affects very few people.

Where is this “somewhere”? Within 30 degrees of the equator perchance?

Yeah it’s a weird take. Peoole can criticise Apple for many things, but their hardware engineering seems to be generally regarded as pretty decent..

Holy shit dude. I just looked it up. Sunrise and sunset times in Hong Kong only vary by just over an hour throughout the entire year?! Try London where they each vary by 4.5 hours, and total daylight varies by nearly nine hours, then get back to us.

Maybe people that live in the tropics should be automatically disqualified from having an opinion on summer time clock changes, unless they do the most basic research.