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Journal Em Emalb's Journal: because I want to (Religious Poll) 54

Journal by Em Emalb

I view the bible as a guide. I'm a Christian. I'm also one to state that I don't feel everything written down in the bible actually happened, but is used in the same way a fable is used to teach us.

All I know is this: treat others as you'd like to be treated. (Lately for me that means kick my ass :D )

And please, if you don't believe in God or are a different religion, please don't even bother to respond, it will just annoy me. Kinda like when people get all high and mighty when I asked what tv channel they watched the news on. Yeah, whatever man. If it doesn't apply to you, then don't respond!

Ok, that out of the way:

Do you believe the bible in its entirety happened exactly as it is written down?

A) Yes

B) No

This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

because I want to (Religious Poll) More

because I want to (Religious Poll)

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  • I go along with the part you said about some of the parts are used as a guide to teach.
  • Like you, I view it as fables or allegory, some of it as recorded oral tradition, not as 100% historical fact (at least the OT).

    Cheers,

    Ethelred

    • Yup. It's a book of myths -- "allegory" is a perfect word for it. I take it all with a grain of salt, and don't imbue the New Testament with any credence at all.

      ....Bethanie....
      • So you are an extremely laid back jew? Heh... sorry...

        Its B with me, too. This is where the engineer pokes his head into the religion thing. Adam and Eve couldn't create the world... our makeup would be far too similar if that were the case.... stuff like that.
        • Adam and Eve couldn't create the world... our makeup would be far too similar if that were the case.... stuff like that.

          By "create the world", you mean all the people?

          I don't think it says that. Take a look here: Genesis 4 [gospelcom.net]

          Check out Verse 17, and 26. These guys are pulling wives out of... where?
        • Funny you should say that -- if I were to choose to practice any "established" religion, I would be Jewish, most definitely. I like the rituals, and the cultural values are very close to my own.

          If I had married Love of my Life #2, I would have converted. But how do you "convert" from nothing? Oh well. You know what I mean.

          ....Bethanie....
          • Not being part of an established religion does not mean you can't convert from nothing. You currently have a set of beliefs, values, goals, etc. Those beliefs form your view or religion.

            Some people don't think atheism is a religion.... But if the beliefe in your self as the ultimate power in your world, able to determine your destiny... then how is that different from any other religion.

            To worship does not have to be overt traditional displays of worship (praying, tithing, sacrafice, etc). To worship i
          • Wow. I don't think I've ever heard anyone miss the point of religion by such a wide margin before. Rituals have no meaning in and of themselves, they merely point to a more fundamental thing. Unfortunately for Judaism the love of ritual was the thing which made Jesus (and therefore God also) so angry. They had become so focused on ritual and culture that they lost sight of what was the real core of their faith, which was the covenant between God and Israel. Many times throughout the old testament God punish
            • You betchya.

              And I'd vote to crucify Jesus again, 'specially if it would piss you off.

              Of course, Christ and the crucifixion is all just a myth, anyway, so I'm speaking purely hypothetically.

              ....Bethanie....
              • Of course, Christ and the crucifixion is all just a myth, anyway, so I'm speaking purely hypothetically.

                I know you're just trolling, but I'll bite. There is plenty of documentation quite separate from the bible, by historians of that time (Josephus, the Plinys, etc) that document a man called Iesous (Greek) or Yeshua (Aramaic) who annoyed the establishment and got crucified for his efforts. There is just as much justification to believe that Julius Caesar is a myth as there is for Jesus Christ being a myt
                • You're right. That part about the crucifixion being a myth was a complete troll.

                  I had gotten woken up from my too-short nap prematurely, and I was *really* grumpy.

                  ....Bethanie....
        • Adam and Eve couldn't create the world... our makeup would be far too similar if that were the case.... stuff like that.

          You've heard of Mitochondrial Eve [wikipedia.org], right? It's interesting:

          [snip]
          Although she was named after the Biblical Eve, mitochondrial Eve was not the sole living female of her day. As many as 20,000 individuals of Eve's species may have lived at the same time as her. But only Eve produced an unbroken line of daughters that persists today. As a result, only Eve's mitochondria have descendants
  • First what we read now definitely isn't the Bible as it was "written down".

    Also I'd have to say that there was a major change in the editorial staff between Old and New Testiments.

    Beyond that I've never been able to slog thru the whole thing.
  • I pretty much agree with you, though I don't know if I would characterize the stories as fables. Adam & Eve and the Garden of Eden, yes, but at least some of the Biblical stories have some independent confirmation (battles and kingdoms, stuff like that) and even some of the more fantastic stories, like the Flood, have their counterparts in other myths and religions from the area. So I think during the process of retelling and handing down stories the events were exaggerated and things that were not unde
    • Guess I could have clarified.

      I believe the bible is similiar to fables because they both teach a story and a model for behavior. Not necessarily the way they are told.

      But yeah, you got it.

    • Re:B. No (Score:2)

      by Tet ( 2721 ) *
      Finally, the New Testament is probably pretty accurate, at least as far as people and events go, since much of it was written either by first had observers or people that were not too far removed from the time and place of the events

      I'm not entirely sure I'd agree. After all, even the earliest parts of the NT weren't written until 20 years after the death of Jesus, and some were as much as 60 years later. Memory can play funny tricks over periods of time like that, and I'd be surprised if it wasn't full o

      • I think you'd remember a guy you followed around for 3 years, saw executed in the most barbaric way imaginable, and then met again a few days later. I've a funny feeling that it would stick in your head in a rather persistant way. On the other hand, if it were just a story why would people have submitted to be tortured and killed for it? And how is it that the propaganda that the Jewish authorities put out with great energy to discredit Jesus in the time after his death has not stood the test of time anywh
  • the question is "as it's written down". Isn't the Book of Job excepted universally as body of allegory? So is faith in the literal Bible believing that this is a parable or that God actually makes bets with Satan to test people's faith?

    Even some initially obvious metaphors have alternative meanings: the "eye of the needle" (which the camel can get through easier than a rich man to Heaven) is supposedly an actually gateway in old Jeruselem (?). The text is then sometimes translated as being about inheri
  • No. You know, you can be of a different religion and still have an opinion on this. :^) Unless you've never been made to listen to and/or read the Bible, in which case maybe you don't. But as a lapsed Methodist, I claim the right to an opinion on this.

    I've met Bible Literalists, and they're fucking scary.
    • yeah they are.

      I know a very religious family that believes homosexuality is wrong and is a *BIG* sin. They condemn it.

      The funny thing? They say none of this to the gay cousin they have living two houses down. He's ok, cause he's one of us probably sums it up best.

      Religion is weird.
      • The thing about homosexuality always looks like code to me. Every time it is mentioned, it is mentioned in the same breath as sexual immorality of all kinds. Rape, pedophilia, incest, orgies, and infidelity are all bundled in. I get the impression that, at the time, homosexuality was considered as a purely self indulgent vice, part of swinging, that type of thing. I suspect that it less refers to people living in stable, loving, monogamous homosexual relationships than the vice part of it.

        Regardless, homos
        • you've hammered home my point perfectly.

          I'm not judging* him. They are.

          *well, I am judging him, but not based off his religious beliefs...I disagree with his lifestyle. Not because he's gay though.
    • As another lapsed Methodist, I claim the right to your opinion!

      Wait, maybe it was mine all along!
  • I view it as an entertaining and/or stimulating (if rather long) read, not as a guide to how to live my life.

    -MT.

  • B) (Score:2)

    by Zirnike ( 640152 )
    Of course.

    I may be a different religion, but I'm qualified to reply. After all, Christianity is just a Discordian practical joke that got out of hand.

    For example, Malaclypse the Elder gave Bingo to the deciples.

    *roll*roll*
    "B-21!"
    "Bingo!"
    Mal: "Do this in memory of me"

    • this is what I was talking about.
      • Than you shouldn't have asked. Contrariness is a religious obligation for us.
        • Then perhaps you should have read what I wrote. I was interested in your opinion, since you aren't a Christian.

          I thought it was pretty simple.

          Guess I was wrong.
          • that should have read was NOT interested.

            Think about man, why would I care what someone who doesn't believe the Christian ideals and/or follows the bible thinks, the question was meant for Christians..

            It doesn't matter, therefore I didn't want it.

            Fair enough?

  • A. (Score:2)

    by Abm0raz ( 668337 )
    Just not in this plane of reality.

    (ok, just being different for different's sake)

    -Ab
  • Hell - I don't think most of it happened at all.

    Irony (mebbe even aluminumy) would be an athiest that *DID* believe everything in the bible.
  • My Mother believed that each of us children should have the choice to choose which church "felt" right. Consequently, I have been a member of different churches (Episcopal and Congregational) while also trying out several on my journey. (too many to name)

    I agree completely that it is a guide, filled with allegories, to help us live the best life we can.

    Generally I tend to annoy some people, because I do not belong to a church anymore, and don't believe that I need to support a building or social "group" in

  • Not annoy Em? Who would think we'd want to not annoy Em? :-)

    I choose C just to be annoying.

  • B) (Score:2)

    by btlzu2 ( 99039 ) *
    I'm adding a whole lot here.

    B. :)
  • B. I believe that some parts of the Bible (like the first bit of genesis) are stories, given by God to explain a truth, that is seperate from what you might call historical fact.

    There are also some parts of the Bible which seem to be politically inspired, some which are probably mis-translations, and others which are devoid of the context in which they should be seen. This is largely inevitable because the Bible, while inspired and guided by God, is a work of imperfect men and therefor cannot be in itself

  • a) (Score:1)

    by N473 ( 183700 ) *
    So let me explain, since I seem to be alone...

    I have pretty much no religion. Pretty much no morals. I have read the entire Bible, however, and more than once. I do believe in literals. I do not believe, however, in interpretations from those idiots we hear so much about.

    To wit, "the begining", the period of time God saw fit to let the universe sort itself out after the Big Bang. The instant he invented time and space. Vague and with reason. Then the creation of Earth. Periods of time deliniated i
  • Except for the parts that are explicitely allegorical/symbolic, i.e. the prophecies in Daniel, parts of Revelation, and such.

    I seem to be in a minority group here.
    • A) Here as well with the same stipulations you just listed.
    • I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who says they believe that the Bible is literally true- and mean that to the point of suspending normal conventions of language. There are all types out there- so you might be able to dredge somebody up. The Mormons take some poetry literally in their effort to argue God has a physical body (though this is problematic for them as they must reject other imagery in order to avoid God being a bird and such)

      A really interesting thing is prophecy-- where it
  • With the qualification that a lot of it was written from the perspective of a culture with which most of us are unfamiliar (just look at our current problems in the Middle East for proof of this). Like was mentioned above, there are alternate meanings to a lot of things (the eye of the needle was the example cited above).
  • Too much of early scripture was prophetic or symbolic. Also, even though the Bible is said to be the word of God, it took men to write it down. It took imperfect language to try to express what should be perfect concepts. Tales of things like battles the Israelites fough are very much like other histories written elsewhere - from the viewpoint of the victor. (However, as my recent JE says: "What if I'm wrong?")

  • b (Score:1)

    by subgeek ( 263292 ) *
    i believe some things (ok many things) are metaphor, parable, allegory. i believe the creation stories (there are two) fall into this category. but i also believe that the power of God is able to cause things that are seemingly contrary to "natural law," ie. jesus could heal people, etc. i put natural law in quotes because i see God as natural, and His law as superior to other law.

    i think that's about as much into my specific beliefs as i want to get right now.
  • To quote a portion of the statement of faith at my church B.B.C. [bethanybiblechurch.org] "We believe in the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments as being verbally inspired and completely inerrant in the original writings and of supreme and final authority in faith and life. (2 Tim. 3:16; Rom. 15:4; 2 Pet. 1:20)"

    So yes I believe in Adam and Eve, Noah, Jonah, Water to Wine, Virgin Birth, Ressurection, Ascencion and so on.
    • You people scare me. I'm recent convert to Christianity and I believe that the Holy Spirit had his hand on my shoulder several times on my journey to Christ, but I find you position on the Bible scary and untenable. You are like the Pharisees who cared more about the traditions of the Elders than the truth that they refused to see. Jesus called them hypocrites, yet they knew the scriptures far better than you or I.

      The bible has been translated into many different languages, and with many different interpre
      • I'm sorry you don't like what I believe- I'm sorry you feal that my error is grievous enough to justify personal attacks.

        I don't really have the energy or time to enter into debate- many of your primary objections arise from a fundamental lack of education in regards to my position. I know this is so because of the things you say that make it plain, so please don't be upset. It's not that there is anything wrong with your intelligence- you just don't know much about what I am talking about. If you did
        • Let me ask you this: do you really think that God created the Earth in seven days? Or that Mary had an Immaculate Conception? Or that Christ fed thousands with three fishes and five loaves?

          As others have pointed out, much of what's written in a modern Bible isn't comparable to what would have been written in an ancient Bible. Change has occured as the result of interpretation, countless translations, etc.

          Modern Christians celebrate Christ's birth at Christmas, when the truth is that Christ's birth (if the
        • I appologise for any offence I caused, and I accept that I went a little overboard in the tone of my critisism, BUT I stand by my premise that parts of the Bible which you may hold as litereral, I consider far more likely to have been written as parables, as was common then, and remains common today, as novels often use parables to describe everyday truths. Animal farm is a good example.

          I appeal to you to look again at the majesty of the universe and see the glory of God in its smallest detail and its unim
      • One of the most common misconceptions bandied about is the "Chinese whispers"[1] theory of the bible.

        The thing is, we have copies of old manuscripts. The ancient scribes were quite anal in making copies. Every hebrew letter has a numerical value, so they summed up the original, then summed up the copy. If the sums did not match, the copy was burnt. [2]

        Diverse texts have been studied and compared and found to be amazingly similar.

        Leave aside for the moment the question of whether or not the Bible is or is

  • B) (Score:2)

    by freejung ( 624389 ) *
    I have faith in God and I think Jesus was the real thing, but I also think that the Bible was intended mostly as parable, history, law, and mythology kind of rolled into one. There is a difference between mythical truth and literal scientific or historical truth. Myths are true because of what they have to teach us, not because they literally happened that way.
  • There are places in the bible where it explicitly states that what follows is just a story, eg "Jesus told the following parable..."

    All the rest, I believe is possible, not because it is possible, but because any being capable of creating a whole universe can also interact with it, if that being chooses to do so.

    For example: the Red Sea could indeed have been parted as depicted by Cecil B. de Mille. I wasn't there, so I can't say for sure - but neither were you, so you can't say for sure that it didn't ha
  • Stupid /. Limits, should have read "Wow! Were you begging for a flame war in your own journal? Personal note attached.
    My Grandma thinks the bible is unchanged since written, hmmm personal interest, translations from one language to another/several. "So", I asked, " Does that mean unicorns exist?" note she thinks myths "ARE OF THE OCCULT! I can't remember the passage, but it goes something like this: Christ is like the lion in his strength and like the unicorn in his purity. [speaking of changes to translat
  • Reminds of my favorite, err, Christian joke [yeah kinda' baits, but shows the mentality]
    An area of the US was experiencing heavy flooding. A rescue boat came by and spoke to the gentleman bailing water out of his house and offered rescue. "No, thank you. God will save me." As the waters rose he had to climb on top of his roof. Another rescue boat happened to come by and asked if he needed assistance. "No. I'm fine. God will save me." As the murky waters rose still further, he was obliged to scramble to the

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